Safety stop at 15'..........always

[Walter]

Man does quick ascents and blows off safety stops over multiple dives on multiple days of diving. Does anyone think this is GOOD??

Of course not.

Can anyone justify THESE actions per any agency protocol??

Nope.

Perhaps the fine splitting of these deco/safety stop hairs belongs in another thread?

Perhaps it belongs here. I think it's a very interesting discussion that wouldn't have taken place elsewhere.

Are there ANY suggestions (other than don't dive with strokes) that you can give the OP to handle that very situation in the future? IOW, how would YOU approach the situation?

I would ignore it. It's between the diver and his buddy. It's none of our business.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually, Walter ... it COULD be our business.

Case in point ... I'm heading off in a couple weeks for a trip to Indonesia. The most expensive part of that trip will be a week on a liveaboard in Komodo. Suppose one of the other guests on the boat does this and gets bent. We're in the middle of nowhere. At a minimum, the boat's going to have to end that day's diving and divert somewhere where this person can receive treatment.

I'm on a once-in-a-lifetime trip which is costing me several thousand dollars.

Is this person's carelessness still none of my business?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

Precisely, and in today's litigious society, who knows... you might get sued! :11:

 

[TomP]

Perhaps the fine splitting of these deco/safety stop hairs belongs in another thread?

Perhaps it belongs here. I think it's a very interesting discussion that wouldn't have taken place elsewhere.

Since Safety Stops are pertinent to both the OP question and basic safety procotols i believe it belongs here as well.

Further, I would also humbly submit that there is no hair to split on the question. The value of terminology is to represent something in a concise and unambiguous fashion. One good test for a Term is whether it can stand on its own [or in a very broad context ie: Diving]. Once we begin splitting hairs we cross the line into jargon because the term can no longer stand on its own. The intent and application of Safety and Decompression Stops has been clear for decades and should not be disturbed. Other stop types should be given names that reflect their intent, ala Deep Stops.

It would be an unfortunate if the primary consequence of introducing new stop protocols in the name of safety was confusion.

 

[The Chairman]

The OP never questioned "what" a safety stop was, only what to do when they were being habitually omitted. Rather than being helpful to him, we are discussing rather fines points of what a safety stop is or isn't. Like whether or not the "safety stops" called for in the RGBM tables are called so incorrectly. If it's an open water dive (which I believe it is) than those stops are not essential for a safe ascent. They are only essential if you want to keep diving that day. I see this as a safe step in the right direction and perhaps it will curtail the lackadaisical attitude towards safety stops exhibited by the diver in question.

I don't really care that the discussion about what a safety stop is continues, but I would like to see some answers to the OP as well. What should or can be done in these situations?

 

[Hank49]

Actually, Walter ... it COULD be our business.

Case in point ... I'm heading off in a couple weeks for a trip to Indonesia. The most expensive part of that trip will be a week on a liveaboard in Komodo. Suppose one of the other guests on the boat does this and gets bent. We're in the middle of nowhere. At a minimum, the boat's going to have to end that day's diving and divert somewhere where this person can receive treatment.

I'm on a once-in-a-lifetime trip which is costing me several thousand dollars.

Is this person's carelessness still none of my business?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The liveaboard I was on was very careful about rules because one case of bends or whatever means they have to do a lot of refunding if the trip is cut short. I saw the dms sending people up from beyond the depth limits they set and checking everyone's computers after every dive.

 

[TomP]

...
I don't really care that the discussion about what a safety stop is continues, but I would like to see some answers to the OP as well. What should or can be done in these situations?

Fair enough.
There are really two separate questions. The first is whether or how to protect the diver from himself. The second, is to protect ourselves from the direct and indirect consequences of the diver getting bent as a result of his poor diving practices.

Based on the OP characterization, I'd be surprised if the offending diver could be influenced to change his behavior so i doubt that i would try. If i was really concerned i'd press the operator to enforce their safety stop policy and ban the diver if he refuses to comply.

 

[The Chairman]

I would probably do the same. It's not my boat to enforce the rules, but I do know who REALLY doesn't want an accident to happen.

The best liveaboard I have seen was Caribbean Explorers. They were anal about depth, time, NitrOx as well as the length of your stop. They asked me why my stops always seemed long, which told me they were looking.

 

[Cacia]

Is this person's carelessness still none of my business?

How far are you willing to take that?
....that is the question.

Are you going to take a stand about the hot tub, the skill level, dehydration status? I don't really see myself getting into other people's business to the degree that I would turn my attention from my profile to theirs.

I might mention something, but that would be the most I would consider doing. Diving with a big group has inherent advantages and disadvantages. If you are on a liveaboard, any number of things could abort the trip. People really seem to think they have more control than they do and if everyone is compelled to judge their fellow divers, ...well, how fun could being on that boat really be? (that is what I has kept me off liveaboards, really) too much like a school field trip. I know better than to put myself and others in that situation. I see DM's and Instructors in parts of the world that do not dive conservative or even safe profiles.

I watched a Palauan grab a tank under his armpit and drop off a wall almost 200 ft to catch a dropped camera for a customer, and then shoot straight up.
(am I going to lecture this guy?) No..I'll be amazed and realize his life, his need for a tip, his regard for his life, is different from mine. And what about all that beedle nut? Am I going to take that on too?

I honestly don't see how people travel with all their expectations. What about the newborns on mopeds with moms sitting sidesaddle weaving through traffic? The list goes on and on, and I think you have to just succomb to the fact that you are not in control of everything and worrying about yourself will probably keep you pretty occupied.

 

[Coalcracker]

How far are you willing to take that?
....that is the question.

The list goes on and on, and I think you have to just succomb to the fact that you are not in control of everything and worrying about yourself will probably keep you pretty occupied.

We are in control only of ourselves.

I have been on only three week long liveaboard dive trips. I will not go again for that amount of time. There was always some self styled expert telling others what to do and how it all should be done. No thanks, kindergarten is over. I'll dive the way I like, easy and free. Most NJ boats and Florida operators seem to recognize this. My limited experience on the truth aquatics boats in California also seems the same.