San Carlos Beach/Breakwater Cove, Monterey, CA

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As a former Coastie that has recovered more divers than I care to remember... We would love to have the man power to watch an area like this however; the USCG is one of the smaller branches meaning many of the Coasties you see hold multiple qualifications. Work days start bright and early and sometimes depending on the missions don't end until a boat relieves your crew... A day later. There is often no time in the day to get our required tasks done with the man power we have plus do our mandatory trainings, area of responsibility patrols, boarding and public safety work etc. any coastie will tell you that they would work around the clock to make sure that all divers come home safely however .... It's not their job. It is a sad fact. I remember failing at a rescue of a lobster diver off shore that wasn't even 100 yards from our station. It is something I have never forgotten and haunts me to this day. Pevention is not the USCGs responsibility when it comes to diving. It is the diver's. The Coast Guard will always be around but the reality is, I think, that many divers are dead before they break the surface. I am not saying this is always the case and it would be terrific of the USCG to be able to get in there and save a distressed diver but Iam not sure sending a rescue boat, jet ski or other motorized item into a crowded site is something any coastie would do in fear of being masted and having their qualifications pulled not to mention injuring another person or worse. Iam not trying to be rude either. Most people think the USCG is a puddle pirate or what have you most don't realize that the USCG is responsible for more things than people can imagine. Adding life guard duty wouldn't help. However; anyone from shore or boat could have called the station there for help and they would have come immediately. I wonder if DAN would have been notified of this since the class participants are insured????

My point is not to belittle or demean the efforts or add to the already over taxed men and women of the USCG, but being an east coast diver I have seen USCG as well as local police boats respond to diver distress calls and response has always been quick. The speed that they are able to be on scene is astonishing. Even in the winter, the USCG has pulled me out of the water when a sailboat I was on was destroyed, minutes after entering Long Island Sound I was on a fast response boat. The time that it took for two kayakers and several divers to return the diver to shore was excessive. I am a volunteer firefighter / EMT and every second wasted pulls from potential survivability. If the USCG station is manned or if there is a harbor master/harbor police boat available, why would they not dispatched as well. The lake that I live on has no fewer than 7 fire rescue boats and 5 Lake authority/police boats as well as one State Police boat all of which are available for response to the lake 24/7 during the non frozen time of year. Average response time for a call on the lake is 4-12 minutes, we maintain boat standby crews during high use days (holidays and weekends). We also have volunteers on the lake that can respond with personal vessels, this further reduces our response times. I personally have a jump kit, blue light (for emergency response) and fire department radio on my boat.
So Adrian, to answer your LUDRICOUS comment, back east we make it work, it isn't ludicrous and we have a very high survival rate for water related incidents on the lake because we utilize all available resources. Each town/city on Long Island Sound and the Hudson River has at least one police boat and generally several JetSkis, (most purchased with Federal Grant money made available specifically for the purchase of boats) many have more, NYSP, NYPD and CSP also maintain police boats there are also fire boats that are maintained and manned by many coastal towns. This is all in addition to USCG patrol and service vessels.
Additionally Adrian, calling me out for using the generic reference of GUYS is asinine, I have a seventeen year old daughter (100% female) that refers to her closest girlfriends as "the guys", maybe I'm just not politically correct enough for you, too bad.
 
My point is not to belittle or demean the efforts or add to the already over taxed men and women of the USCG, but being an east coast diver I have seen USCG as well as local police boats respond to diver distress calls and response has always been quick. The speed that they are able to be on scene is astonishing. Even in the winter, the USCG has pulled me out of the water when a sailboat I was on was destroyed, minutes after entering Long Island Sound I was on a fast response boat. The time that it took for two kayakers and several divers to return the diver to shore was excessive. I am a volunteer firefighter / EMT and every second wasted pulls from potential survivability. If the USCG station is manned or if there is a harbor master/harbor police boat available, why would they not dispatched as well. The lake that I live on has no fewer than 7 fire rescue boats and 5 Lake authority/police boats as well as one State Police boat all of which are available for response to the lake 24/7 during the non frozen time of year. Average response time for a call on the lake is 4-12 minutes, we maintain boat standby crews during high use days (holidays and weekends). We also have volunteers on the lake that can respond with personal vessels, this further reduces our response times. I personally have a jump kit, blue light (for emergency response) and fire department radio on my boat.
So Adrian, to answer your LUDRICOUS comment, back east we make it work, it isn't ludicrous and we have a very high survival rate for water related incidents on the lake because we utilize all available resources. Each town/city on Long Island Sound and the Hudson River has at least one police boat and generally several JetSkis, (most purchased with Federal Grant money made available specifically for the purchase of boats) many have more, NYSP, NYPD and CSP also maintain police boats there are also fire boats that are maintained and manned by many coastal towns. This is all in addition to USCG patrol and service vessels.
Additionally Adrian, calling me out for using the generic reference of GUYS is asinine, I have a seventeen year old daughter (100% female) that refers to her closest girlfriends as "the guys", maybe I'm just not politically correct enough for you, too bad.

I do understand your point and I know you weren't belittling the USCG. I'm saying that no responsible coastie would bring any motorized vessel into a crowded area like that so, even if they were dispatched the time would likely have been the same even if they took her dockside. If the USCG isn't called they don't show. When I worked an airline crash a number of years ago we developed a system that charted all available resources to ALL responding agencies not just USCG. It did just what you are suggesting and had excellent results, however; from what I recall that was something our commander had us develop as a unit. I do agree that there should be a notification process through ambulance dispatch but that would have to be worked out within the Monterey community.

lets please remember why we have this thread. Someone was seriously injured/likely deceased. Let's not rough one another up but learn from this and move forward as divers.
 
My point is not to belittle or demean the efforts or add to the already over taxed men and women of the USCG, but being an east coast diver I have seen USCG as well as local police boats respond to diver distress calls and response has always been quick. The speed that they are able to be on scene is astonishing. Even in the winter, the USCG has pulled me out of the water when a sailboat I was on was destroyed, minutes after entering Long Island Sound I was on a fast response boat. The time that it took for two kayakers and several divers to return the diver to shore was excessive. I am a volunteer firefighter / EMT and every second wasted pulls from potential survivability. If the USCG station is manned or if there is a harbor master/harbor police boat available, why would they not dispatched as well. The lake that I live on has no fewer than 7 fire rescue boats and 5 Lake authority/police boats as well as one State Police boat all of which are available for response to the lake 24/7 during the non frozen time of year. Average response time for a call on the lake is 4-12 minutes, we maintain boat standby crews during high use days (holidays and weekends). We also have volunteers on the lake that can respond with personal vessels, this further reduces our response times. I personally have a jump kit, blue light (for emergency response) and fire department radio on my boat.
So Adrian, to answer your LUDRICOUS comment, back east we make it work, it isn't ludicrous and we have a very high survival rate for water related incidents on the lake because we utilize all available resources. Each town/city on Long Island Sound and the Hudson River has at least one police boat and generally several JetSkis, (most purchased with Federal Grant money made available specifically for the purchase of boats) many have more, NYSP, NYPD and CSP also maintain police boats there are also fire boats that are maintained and manned by many coastal towns. This is all in addition to USCG patrol and service vessels.
Additionally Adrian, calling me out for using the generic reference of GUYS is asinine, I have a seventeen year old daughter (100% female) that refers to her closest girlfriends as "the guys", maybe I'm just not politically correct enough for you, too bad.

While I think your intention is good, I believe you are focused on the wrong thing.

The only scenario I can see where a life guard can likely have a positive impact in the outcome of a dive incident is if a diver surfaces in distress, the life guard sees right away, the coast guard is called right away, a boat is dispatched. All the while, the diver remains on the surface.

Every other, more likely scenario, by the time the life guard/coast guard intervene, the situation will already be incredibly grim. Sadly, in years I have been casually following the accidents and incidents forum, it is the grim scenarios that are more common.

These grim cases include:
- The diver panics, bolts to the surface, suffers from an AGE, passes out at the surface (and either remains at the surface or re-submerges after passing out)
- The diver runs out of gas, manages to surface (maybe did a CESA), is unable to remain in the surface, re-submerges and drowns
- The diver is found unconscious underwater by other divers during a dive (without ever being noticed as surfacing prior to losing consciousness)
- A diver is missing (is unconscious and is not seen by his buddy or any other diver in the vicinity)

In these cases, by the time someone is able to notify the coast guard, a boat dispatched and the boat to arrive on scene and effect a rescue, the diver is already unconscious having suffered from something like an AGE or has already drowned. While I agree that even in these scenarios, it is preferable to have help arrive in as soon as possible, I doubt it would make a difference.

From my casual observation, recreational diving incidents usually fall into one of two categories - pre-existing health issues and diver error. Though I don't know anything about this specific incident, I would be very surprised if the incident fell outside of these two categories. In my view, it is better for us as divers to focus on these two categories than to pine for life guard/coast guard or other emergency response resources at every site that divers frequent. In the first place, managing health issues and becoming better divers are two very good ways to proactively avoid finding ourselves in grim situations. In the second place, having emergency resources at common dive sites is not only prohibitively expensive, they are also very unlikely to positively affect the outcome of the common dive incident scenarios.
 
So Adrian, to answer your LUDRICOUS comment, back east we make it work.

None of the scenarios you described are what you proposed for Monterey. You specifically said the USCG could "cut some guys loose to watch the waterfront on high traffic days". THAT is the ludicrous part, and it is in none of the east coast scenarios your described.

Additionally Adrian, calling me out for using the generic reference of GUYS is asinine,

I'm married to a female US Navy officer who's been in the service for 21 years. The use of the word "guys" to describe Armed
Forces personnel isn't appropriate when there are females in the service. Your daughter calling her friends "guys" is an entirely different animal. I hope you will show the women who protect our country the respect they deserve by referring to them by their appropriate gender rather than lumping them into the male gender.

maybe I'm just not politically correct enough for you, too bad.

It's not political correctness, it's showing the women who protect our county the respect they deserve for putting themselves in harm's way to protect the freedoms you have. Is that so hard to do?

I apologize to everyone else for dragging the thread off topic.


-Adrian
 
... back east we make it work, it isn't ludicrous ...

Howdy there.

California is big. Mostly empty. Massively indebted. Frequently broke.

Also gorgeous beyond description. That's beside the point.

The nearby San Francisco Bay Area is densely populated and well-endowed with emergency services. Stanford and UCSF provide health care that draws medical tourism from all around the Pacific Rim, mirroring your experience with Europeans and Middle Easterners seeking top-tier care in NYC. Santa Cruz and Monterey Counties, on the other hand, are more rural. The hospitals vary from pleasant but limited, to tolerable, to sob-story.

The two Monterey Bay counties have a combined population (2014 estimated) of about 700,000. At 167 per square mile, their population density resembles your Ontario County, whose county seat is teeming Canandaigua, population 11,000.

A huge percentage of Monterey County residents are low income agricultural workers. For reasons outside the scope of an A&I thread, these highly mobile seasonal employees and their families are not well integrated into the communities where they (temporarily) live. I would expect their participation in volunteer firefighting and ocean rescue work to be fairly low.

We might hope that other demographics would step up to man volunteer emergency services. Judging simply by the faces of the hundreds of volunteers at the Aquarium, this seems more likely. Still, even simple, obvious and critical programs take years to get established and running.

The Pacific Grove Hyperbaric Chamber was forced to close a few years ago. A staffed and serviced recompression chamber near the water is essential health care infrastructure for divers. The volunteers were well-trained and insanely dedicated, but even so, it took almost two years to raise enough funds to complete required upgrades and purchase insurance so the chamber could reopen again.

You have an embarrassment of riches.

Although it might be tempting to extrapolate, I think comparing your part of the East Coast with Monterey Bay is not a reasonable thing to do.

Best regards.
 
There is a discussion here (General Discussion) with a bit more information. Apparently she survived but is in the hospital and in a coma. I don't know anything else but like others would like to know what happened.
 
I have personally never dived this site, but it seems relatively benign. Yet, there seem to be a lot of accidents there - especially with classes (probably because many classes are conducted there).
 
I have personally never dived this site, but it seems relatively benign. Yet, there seem to be a lot of accidents there - especially with classes (probably because many classes are conducted there).

Generally speaking, the site is an easy dive. It's a shore dive that starts out shallow and stays pretty much shallow. Kick diving the site, it would take you at least 15 or maybe 20 minutes to get deeper than 65 feet.

The area is sheltered anyway as it is a bay so most of the times, surf and swell are not an issue.

Two factors that make this site more challenging are water temps and visibility. The water is usually between 50F and 60F depending on time of year. As such, thick wetsuits and hoods are a minimum. So that means less dexterity and tunnel vision for newer divers. As far as visibility, it can be a challenge. 20ft of vis would be a good day in the areas where open water classes tend to dive.

So you can imagine that for a newer diver, they are probably already uncomfortable with the thick wetsuit and hood. They get into the water and there is mediocre vis. You get a little bit of water in your mask and well, you get the idea.

---------- Post added July 2nd, 2015 at 11:18 AM ----------

There is a discussion here (General Discussion) with a bit more information. Apparently she survived but is in the hospital and in a coma. I don't know anything else but like others would like to know what happened.

According to someone from that forum, she was doing an OOG drill, panicked and bolted.

Not really sure what else there is to know about the situation, if that information is true. Nothing really new to learn from an accident prevention perspective.

But like everyone else, I hope she makes it through ok.
 


Training issue where sadly a moment of panic led to a fatal drowning. Not sure who the scuba school was but the instructor was being an a*hole to the group. I can't disclose how I know this, but if it was my instructor I'd have demanded a refund and filed a complaint with someone. I don't know whether that contributed to the accident, but it certainly didn't help.

Sadly scuba is a lot like skydiving.. you only need to try it once to realize you're not cut out for it, unfortunately sometimes you find out the hard way. Condolences to her family & friends, especially her dive buddy who was there at the time. :(
 

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