Scary OW certification weekend

[tracydr]

As a medical professional this does not make to much sense. Bleeding in the lungs is caused by just a few things..infection, cancer, TB, etc. PE is not very likely based on the symptoms and the resolution of them so quickly. If exertion caused it than it should happen any time you ran or such. It sounds like you had a panic attack hyperventilated causing a shift in pH that lead to bronchospasms. The coughing caused a little irritation in the lungs with a little bleeding.

True. But, the instructor has no business diagnosing this out at the dive site. He put him on oxygen. He should have never let him back in the water. If he was concerned enough to pull out the O2, he should have called the paramedics.
he had chest pain and difficulty breathing. With or without bleeding or pink, frothy sputum, the chest pain and difficulty breathing is a concern.
The point is, the instructor, I assume, is not a physician. Field diagnosis is not his job. He is not qualified to decide if this is a panic attack, asthma attack, heart attack, pulmonary edema, PE or a nose bleed.

 

[usmarinekurt]

This whole thing is giving me a headache and stomachache

 

[skearse]

Not to divert just a little but I am familiar with an SSI dive shop that does turn off the student's air before they do an ascent then turns it back on during ascent. is this standard practice?

Quick OT reply-my wife's cert & my refresher were from SSI, and yes, they did that...in the pool, at least. At the bottom, the OWI gets behind you. Right hand on tank valve, both diver & instructor holding gauges in left had so they both can see. OWI turns off the air, both watch the gauge go to zero, and as soon as the diver has that 'last breath' sensation they signal the OWI by shaking/slapping gauge. OWI then re-opens tank valve while accompanying diver to the surface in a CESA. She did a universal referral (NAUI instructor) for her OW certs and they did NOT do this skill in OW. I can't say yes or no as to whether or not SSI LDSs do this (or is required) as part of the OW certs.

 

[Wookie]

Quick OT reply-my wife's cert & my refresher were from SSI, and yes, they did that...in the pool, at least. At the bottom, the OWI gets behind you. Right hand on tank valve, both diver & instructor holding gauges in left had so they both can see. OWI turns off the air, both watch the gauge go to zero, and as soon as the diver has that 'last breath' sensation they signal the OWI by shaking/slapping gauge. OWI then re-opens tank valve while accompanying diver to the surface in a CESA. She did a universal referral (NAUI instructor) for her OW certs and they did NOT do this skill in OW. I can't say yes or no as to whether or not SSI LDSs do this (or is required) as part of the OW certs.

In a PADI course, that would be considered 2 separate skills, and would never be combined. For the out of air skill, the instructor is behind the student turning off their air, and preventing a panic bolt to the surface. During the CESA, the instructor is in front of the student, with a hand on the faceplate of the students reg and a hand on the students BC to ensure that if the student bolts, the instructor can slow them down. Combining these skills into one is IMHO foolish and likely to lead to an embolism or worse. Oh, snap.

 

[jar546]

I now have an SSI manual as I am doing an instructor crossover course. The standards clearly state not to turn off the air during the emergency swimming ascent skill on OW dive 4. It also does not want the student to dump the weights which is another thing I have witnessed

 

[skearse]

In a PADI course, that would be considered 2 separate skills, and would never be combined. For the out of air skill, the instructor is behind the student turning off their air, and preventing a panic bolt to the surface. During the CESA, the instructor is in front of the student, with a hand on the faceplate of the students reg and a hand on the students BC to ensure that if the student bolts, the instructor can slow them down. Combining these skills into one is IMHO foolish and likely to lead to an embolism or worse. Oh, snap.

Sorry, not enough coffee yet this AM...wasn't coupled with CESA; it was buoyant ascent w/ dropped weights. Point of combining skills taken. FWIW, it was done after 'practicing' the buoyant ascent with air.

I now have an SSI manual as I am doing an instructor crossover course. The standards clearly state not to turn off the air during the emergency swimming ascent skill on OW dive 4. It also does not want the student to dump the weights which is another thing I have witnessed

Yeah, again, this was in the pool only. Can not speak to how this LDS structures the skill for the OW dives.

Anyways...sorry for the hijack...back to the topic at hand...

 

[jar546]

Yeah, again, this was in the pool only. Can not speak to how this LDS structures the skill for the OW dives.

Sorry, I was referring to the OP in post #1 who stated they did that in OW. Should have clarified

 

[scubacrow757]

I was there as part of the weekend group. Not part of the class, but as a diver joining the group for the weekend. Just to clarify, because there seems to be a misconception that he was allowed to go back into the water to dive. This was not the case. The exercise he was to perform was the SSI buddy towing on the surface and removal and re-donning the equipment. The instructor and dive con, first, asked him if he was up to the task and he said yes he wanted to do it. Again, this was not a dive. He was to remain on the surface, under snorkel condition.

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You state that "there really was no crisis". That's not how it came across the first time. Why don't you just stop your post and let this die. You are bringing undue attention to yourself , your instructors, the dive school and the entire diving community as a whole.

 

[jaycanwk]

I was there as part of the weekend group. Not part of the class, but as a diver joining the group for the weekend. Just to clarify, because there seems to be a misconception that he was allowed to go back into the water to dive. This was not the case. The exercise he was to perform was the SSI buddy towing on the surface and removal and re-donning the equipment. The instructor and dive con, first, asked him if he was up to the task and he said yes he wanted to do it. Again, this was not a dive. He was to remain on the surface, under snorkel condition.

What everyone here is concerned with is that he was allowed to go back into into the water period, instead of to the hospital after showing symptoms of lung trauma irregardless of weather he told the instructor he was fine or not.

But I guess this thread is dead cause the OP and/or the instructor hasn't come back to clarify, so I guess we'll never know.

 

[halocline]

I can say that if the failure was the spg, then it can empty quick. I have personally witness a spg blow and drain a tank in about 30 secs. Maybe that is what the op meant.

Daru

Nope, no way. There's a flow restrictor in the HP port. A full tank takes maybe 20 minutes to drain out the HP port of a regulator, not 30 seconds. Sorry....

Now, this guy had around 500 PSI, maybe less, when his HP hose started leaking. If it took him 5 minutes or more to get out of the water, there's no reason why his tank couldn't be empty, or close to empty, by then. HP hose failures sure look spectacular, so it would be quite easy for the new diver to think that he was losing all his air. Plus, he was pretty anxious about the dive in general, judging from the post. That would tend to make those bubbles a lot scarier looking.

I'm only about half way through the thread so far, but I wonder if it's possible his 'pink frothy' spit up was just a bloody nose mixed in with some mucus and water. Just a guess, because like so many other people, I find it amazingly difficult to believe that an instructor would allow a diver who really was coughing up blood from a lung injury to go back into the water instead of rushing the diver to the hospital. That's the part that just can't be true, can it?