Scuba Etiquette: Tipping?

[I Dive]

I generally always tip unless service sucks, but only because I know waitstaff are paid crap and usually working DM's are not paid at all. What I wonder is, how and why is that? How is it that over time restaurants have been able to condition customers to pay the bulk of their waitstaff's salaries AND get the IRS to basically sponsor it? How and why is it acceptable in the SCUBA industry for a dive charter to not pay a DM one stinking penny for working, but yet expect the customers to all chip in for the DM's income? If you don't want to pay him, why the heck should I? It is the dumbest thing ever and I don't understand why it is that way. When you take your car to the repair shop, you get a bill for the total amount due from the shop. You don't pay the shop the amount they charge you and then tip the actual mechanic who did the repair. The mechanic is paid for his job from the shop and the shop includes their cost for that mechanic in what they charge you. It's the same way with nearly every business except restaurants, bars, and SCUBA charters. It blows my mind. News flash to bars, restaurants, and dive charters. PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES FOR WORKING!!!! DON'T EXPECT CUSTOMERS TO PAY YOU FOR SERVICE AND THEN ALSO PAY THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDED THE SERVICE. I'm guessing there will be a bunch of replies about how expensive dive charters, eating out, bars, etc... would be if the businesses had to pay their employees and I honestly think that philosophy is a big pile of crap. These industries only do it because they historically have gotten away with it.

 

[BobinNC]

I help load the tanks, I help unload the tanks, I help load bags and I help unload the bags, I climb up the stairs after the dive all by myself and then mosey over to my spot with Co-Captain throwing rubber band on my octo so tank does not wobble after I remove my bcd. I reach over for a bottle of water provided for the trip and a few cookies that are available. I also paid $70 for the trip and $30 for nitrox. So why would I want to tip if neither captain nor co-captain (both of whom are very nice guys btw) did anything other than carry me to the dive spot, handed me the flag and picked me up and dropped me off and drove me back to the docks? I do not give tips here in usa because I do not receive service that requires a tip.

I would not have tipped a dime either and not been upset with them either, they provided a service that was paid for and did not do anything beyond what was expected for that service, maybe even a little less.

A tip is a courtesy and not a requirement

Precisely!

 

[RJP]

How and why is it acceptable in the SCUBA industry for a dive charter to not pay a DM one stinking penny for working, but yet expect the customers to all chip in for the DM's income?

I think you're being naive here, really.

Who do you THINK is going to "chip in" for the DM's income if the charter op paid the DMs?

THE CUSTOMER

Because the charter rate would need to be increased to cover that cost. And the fact of the matter is the cost of the charter would increase considerably MORE than the $10-$20 you might tip. Why? Because the dive op would incur additional payroll, accounting, benefit, and tax costs necessary to pay the DMs "a living wage"?

So if you'd rather pony up an additional $30 for the "cost" of the charter instead of digging into your wallet for a $20 tip, you're just not thinking it through.

 

[djtimmy77]

We prefer diving on a boat that has no DM.

 

[RJP]

We prefer diving on a boat that has no DM.

Captain only? No DM or Crew of any sort? Never seen such an operation.

 

[diver 85]

Whats the deal on tipping? We are in Coz with a GREAT diver operator, small groups. Mostly just her and her captain on the boat with 5-6 divers, sometimes an extra DM. Nicest Dive boat I have seen in Coz. What is a "good" tip? Do I give it to her to share it out or her and the captain seperately? "We" are usually 4 divers and we are with her 5 days? (I'll post a report later.)

Help?

Rick (the new diver-> )

$5 a tank----------k.i.s.s.......

 

[I Dive]

I think you're being naive here, really.

Who do you THINK is going to "chip in" for the DM's income if the charter op paid the DMs?

THE CUSTOMER

Because the charter rate would need to be increased to cover that cost. And the fact of the matter is the cost of the charter would increase considerably MORE than the $10-$20 you might tip. Why? Because the dive op would incur additional payroll, accounting, benefit, and tax costs necessary to pay the DMs "a living wage"?

So if you'd rather pony up an additional $30 for the "cost" of the charter instead of digging into your wallet for a $20 tip, you're just not thinking it through.

Heck, why stop now? Why not pull even bigger numbers out of thin air to try and discredit my opinion? Are you sure a charter wouldn't have to charge an additional $75 per diver? Or maybe it's $127.74 per diver? Pulling numbers out of thin air serves no purpose whatsoever. I don't mind one bit if you disagree with me, but come on. Calling me naive and saying I am not thinking this through? You don't know me so don't go there. I do this stuff for a living. I put bids together, many times in the several million dollars range, and a large part of that is determining cost-including cost of labor. I then also have to determine an approximate range that competitors will be bidding to make sure we are competitive. That's how things are done in the real business world. The majority of businesses and industries don't hide behind the "It would just be too expensive" shield and throw their hands in the air and decide it can't be done. They actually have to find a way to not only pay their workers, but also still charge a competitive price.

 

[Dave1981]

I don't think any of us are this for the money! When I'm tipped I take it more as a personal complement. A post dive beer and thank you is the usual tip in my experience, and that's fine with me. It's only when you get the scraped through open water a year ago and not dived since that you start wondering why you do this for free!

 

[sibermike7]

Are you sure a charter wouldn't have to charge an additional $75 per diver? Or maybe it's $127.74 per diver? Pulling numbers out of thin air serves no purpose whatsoever. I do this stuff for a living. I put bids together,...

Super! Can you throw out some real numbers for us so that we can see if tipping the DM is cheaper than have the increase in cost as part of the charter? Can we agree that the charter or Dive Operator (DO) will want to make at least as much profit as they are currently making? Hence, the entire cost of paying the DMs will have to reflected in the additional costs of the charters.

Let me know if these parameters are 1/2 way realistic.

1.) Figure minimum of 4 divers (if more, then operator just has a higher profit margin).
2.) 2 trips a week (I know some months have 5 Sat/Sun but not every week will the boat go out either. 104 trips would be full so to be more realistic, let's say 100 trips a year. Does that sound about right?
3.) Hey, they are now professionals but for the sake of argument, let's scrape by with paying them minimum wage. Of course, the DO will have to also figure cost for SS, any taxes, mandatory benefits for PT help, etc. and pass that on also.
4.) Does the DO now get stuck with providing air for the "employees" since they require it to do the job and how much does this cost the DO?
5.) Figure 8 hour day, no OT.

This should get us a pretty good estimate at the cheapest cost per diver-per dive we could get away with. If you would please do the math "I Dive", and let us know, it will show us whether tipping benefits the divers or not.
Thanks.


Oh, and let's figure 2 DMs per charter, per day.

 

[djtimmy77]

Captain only? No DM or Crew of any sort? Never seen such an operation.

It is a six pack and it is fantastic. We do tip the captain though, as he is super helpful, and really laid back at the same time.

It seems that on the other boats around here, we never use the DM in the water either. We generally ask for our own drop with our own flag. On those boats I generally give the tip to the crew members that help schlep the gear on and off the boat.