Seacraft vs suex DPV

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Every scooter mentioned here produces a similar amount of torque. That's just a mathematical function of the force that the motor experts on the prop. You can't reduce torque without also reducing thrust.

The Genesis is roughly 20% more thrust than the other two - according to the manufacturers' specs. "Similar" is subjective, but I would not call 20% more "similar".

I think Suex is still the only scooter that has an optional dead reckoning navigation system available, which some divers find useful. But otherwise, I generally agree: Suex has become complacent and failed to keep pace with competitors' innovations.

Seacraft has the ENC3 navigation unit. I think it does the same thing as the Suex, but I don't have any direct experience with the Suex nav unit.

Could the suex navigation system be attached to another scooter?

I have the Seacraft ENC3 on my Genesis.

It mounts to a standard GoPro-style mount.

Explorer Technology LLC sells a hard handle very simlar to the Seacraft one, that the ENC will mount to. The handle for a Sierra/Cuda fits a Genesis perfectly.

 
I’ve ridden all three. There’s no comparison. Get the Genesis.
 
Seacraft Future 1000 is comparable to Genesis. A little longer runtime, I think, thanks to 150 W-Hr more battery. Also longer and heavier.

i was told recently by a Seacraft owner that their maintenance schedule calls for new bearings every 100 hours, which costs around $1000. I do not know the truth of that but I would be checking into it before buying one.

Yeah clearly no ... First there's no bearing it's a bushing. Most people can wait 300-500h before changing it, and it would cost under 100$.

--------------------

Regarding your other comment

Also, replacing all the batteries in a Future 1000 is well, over $2000. You can replace all the batteries in a G3.1 for under $400.

400$ wouldn't ever cover the price of quality cells for 850Wh ... No accounting for any labor... Any material, equipment, or valuing your time. You can't compare.
 
Every scooter mentioned here produces a similar amount of torque. That's just a mathematical function of the force that the motor experts on the prop. You can't reduce torque without also reducing thrust.

Traditionally most tow-behind scooters that descend from Bill Gavin's original design use an asymmetric internal weight distribution so that when the motor is running the scooter rotates 90° counterclockwise and heaviest part of the scooter body moves from the bottom to the right, thus balancing out the torque and keeping it in a stable orientation.


Torque reduction systems exists. Namely stators.
It's simple the Seacraft is pretty much the only scooter you could steer with one finger or no hand at all actually. As much as I agree Genesis are impressive scooters, they are not as comfortable to ride.

The Genesis is roughly 20% more thrust than the other two - according to the manufacturers' specs. "Similar" is subjective, but I would not call 20% more "similar".

I'm genuinely curious what kind of dives you do to even care ... I know nobody who cares about top speed. It's painful, uncomfortable. I would never want to even get close to it for any length of time. Short bust to catch up on a buddy fair enough.

It needs to be enough to pull 2 divers with full equipment (twinset/CCRs + stages), but you don't need the power of a speedboat. I've never seen or heard anyone to use a Seacraft or Genesis at their top speed for more than a few seconds. It's like comparing the top speed of Porsche vs Lamborghini and arguing which one can go faster on the highway... Makes no sense...

Range per Wh is what matters, in >90% of scenario you'll be cruising at around 150ft/min - 50m/min
 
Yeah clearly no ... First there's no bearing it's a bushing. Most people can wait 300-500h before changing it, and it would cost under 100$.

--------------------

Regarding your other comment



400$ wouldn't ever cover the price of quality cells for 850Wh ... No accounting for any labor... Any material, equipment, or valuing your time. You can't compare.

You should stop pulling numbers out of your butt. It makes you look like a poptart.

The 12s7p 21700 packs I build are 1550wh and cost under $400 in cells
 
400$ wouldn't ever cover the price of quality cells for 850Wh ... No accounting for any labor... Any material, equipment, or valuing your time. You can't compare.

Sorry? I recently did replace all the cells in a Genesis 2.2. That was 1700Wh. It cost me under $700, using the same Sanyo 18650 batteries that Logic uses.

The price of 18650 cells varies, including by quantity purchased. But, I checked today and you can get the 72 cells required for a Genesis 3.1 for under $350.

As for labor, etc, I did it myself, with 1 or 2 very basic hand tools. For a 3.1, it can be done in an hour or so.

$4.70 per cell in quantities from 10 to 100.

 
Yeah clearly no ... First there's no bearing it's a bushing. Most people can wait 300-500h before changing it, and it would cost under 100$.

I simply reported what the manufacturer recommends (in my later post, with the quotes from the manual).

Torque reduction systems exists. Namely stators.
It's simple the Seacraft is pretty much the only scooter you could steer with one finger or no hand at all actually. As much as I agree Genesis are impressive scooters, they are not as comfortable to ride.

The only scooter? LOL!!

I can drive my BlackTip Tech at normal cruising speed with no hand at all (with cruise control engaged).

I can drive my Genesis at least with no more than one finger. I don't have enough time in the water with it yet to say categorically that I can drive it with no hand at all, but I think I can.

As far as what is "comfortable to ride", I am not even sure how to respond to that. My contact points on my scooter are my hand and the tow cord clipped to my crotch strap. Presuming cruising at 150-ish feet per minute, my BlackTip and my Genesis 2.1 are equally comfortable to me - as is the Magnus I've driven a fair bit. As was my Genesis when it was a 2.2, before I converted it to a 2.1.

I'm genuinely curious what kind of dives you do to even care ... I know nobody who cares about top speed. It's painful, uncomfortable. I would never want to even get close to it for any length of time. Short bust to catch up on a buddy fair enough.

It needs to be enough to pull 2 divers with full equipment (twinset/CCRs + stages), but you don't need the power of a speedboat. I've never seen or heard anyone to use a Seacraft or Genesis at their top speed for more than a few seconds. It's like comparing the top speed of Porsche vs Lamborghini and arguing which one can go faster on the highway... Makes no sense...

Range per Wh is what matters, in >90% of scenario you'll be cruising at around 150ft/min - 50m/min

I reported objective manufacturer specs.

If you don't like running a Genesis at full throttle or have no pratical use for its thrust, that's fine. It doesn't change that it has more thrust than the Seacraft. By a fair margin. That is an objective fact, whether it matters to you or not.

I have run my Genesis at full throttle for more than just a few seconds at a time. I don't find it especially uncomfortable. I mean, would I do a whole dive like that? No. But, if I stop to look at something and then hammer it at 100% for a full minute or two to catch and maybe even pass my buddy? No problem at all, for ME. I do have a Y-crotch strap, which probably helps in that regard.

Range per Wh is what matters?? LOLOL!!! Maybe to you. What matters to me is range.

If it has more range because it is more efficient or because it has more battery, I don't care.

Even so, the Range/Wh calculation is this:

G3.1: 54 feet per Wh
SF1000: 51.7
XJ-S: 28.1

So, the G3.1 is superior to the Seacraft in your preferred metric.

Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing about this. I am interested in objective data about them.

Speaking of which, Seacraft claims to be the only scooter with Reverse. My BlackTip has had Reverse for quite a while (2 years?). And cruise control. I haven't found a use for Reverse yet, but the BT does have it. I guess it might have been nice the time that I got fishing line wound up around my prop. It took a couple of minutes to get it all pulled out and resume my dive.

With my Genesis, I would just pull the prop straight out the back. No tools required. No unscrewing or anything else. Just grab and pull. Clear the line and slide it back in. What took a minute or two on my BlackTip (not using Reverse) would probably take about 10 seconds on the Genesis.
 
I decided to add the Dive-X options to my chart.

Anybody have an real-world insight in the claims Dive-X makes for the CudaX? Is it REALLY that much more efficient than the Genesis and Seacraft?

69 feet per Wh versus 52-54 is quite a big difference.


Genesis 3.1Seacraft Future 1000Suex XJ-SBlackTip TechCudaX Exploration
Price (12/16/2023) (USD$)8970877882052099***7300***
Thrust (lbs)90+76+7457*108*
Range (at 150fpm) (miles)8.79.853.511.3
Run (at 150fpm) (minutes)300350185123**400**
Battery capacity (W-Hr)8501000940432864
Feet per Wh54.051.728.142.869.1
Weight (lbs)34354428.542.3
Length (inches)24.533.33128.529.9
Depth rating (ft)6604906604001000
Depth rating optional1000n/an/an/an/a
Replace batteries (USD$)350270026005001000
Sealed hull chargingYYNNN
Optional Power Take-offYYNNN
One-hand speed controlYYNYY
Infinitely variable speedYNYNN
TSA-compliantYY*NYY
* only with optional* in Boost mode* in Ludicrous mode
reduced-capacitymax 7 minutesmax 1 minute per use
battery kit** all assuming** all assuming
Dewalt 12 A-HrDewalt 12 A-Hr
batteriesbatteries
*** no batteries*** no batteries
 
Yeah clearly no ... First there's no bearing it's a bushing. Most people can wait 300-500h before changing it, and it would cost under 100$.

--------------------

Regarding your other comment



400$ wouldn't ever cover the price of quality cells for 850Wh ... No accounting for any labor... Any material, equipment, or valuing your time. You can't compare.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. You can buy the batteries on Amazon and change them yourself in less than 60 minutes.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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