I was just wondering if any of you amature photographers have ever sold or published (on paper; ie. local newspaper) your pictures (underwater or other). How did you go about it? Did it happen just once? Would you do it again or do you prefer keeping your pictures for yourself.
Selling and publishing your pics
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Gilligan
Contributor
I have had only two situations where a commercial use of my photos was asked for. Being an amateur photographer with relatively amateur equipment I have no desires or expectations of ever having a marketable product.
On the first occassion one of the more popular kayak websites that covers numerous topics wanted to use a pic of my gf descending from the kayak as I was beneath taking the photo. They used it on the dive portion of their website. No money was exchanged, they simply asked for permission and linked my kayak diving site to theirs.
The other instance was more recent and was from an inflatable kayak company in Canada that also just asked for written permission to use some of the instructional photos from the kayak diving portion of my website in exchange for giving credit and a link to my site. No money involved.
As an amateur photographer the use alone of the photos was good enough for me. I would imagine there are an untold number of people trying to sell their underwater photos. I wouldn't even consider it at my amateur level.
ah photo useage , sale and rights a very intresting and touchy subject.
Im not a professional but i do alot of items in this area as i have sold a fair number of photos in the past 2 years with the camps i help with and other photos in my collection.
first thing to remember is that is that you never give away a photo no matter how in significiant you think it is because it sets a precedent in the future that they can use you for very cheap because of your past, this means even if its a tag line, or a small amount will keep the deal, but also remember to get a written agreement that this is a onetime use of the image (or for a certain amount of time , for the web) and that you still retain the copyright of the image. That if in the future more images are needed they must contact you to arrange that. the reason you need to write this out is that i have had people who bought prints from me who thought that once they bought the image that they owned it and could do what ever they wanted including copies, which isnt correct because on the back of the photo i had stamped copyrighted image, for reprints contact XXX for permission. this lady said that wasnt fair, and my comment to her was that she should have read the fine print on the order form before buying it. this is just one example of how not stating the boundries that people can twist them for there own use
Now for prints, the prices i have charged have varied depending on the subject and number of photos being bought. but on average im around $4-6 for 4x6 , ~ $8 for 5x7, and $20 for 8x10, but those are subject to change.
now if its a magazine that is asking for useage of your photo it is a totally different ballgame in that there are general standards already in place.
i use this tool to calculate the rate http://www.editorialphoto.com/contracts/estimatorweb.html , because thats a realm where the company will try to get you for a cheap as possible, and thats why i use the tool listed above.
now its a little complicated but if you know the info you need to input in the input fields it will calulate it for you. for example if say rodales wanted a cover shot for the cover of a issue based off there 185k subscribers and almost 17k full page ad rate for a cover photo you would negotate for 1500 for the right to use that photo for the cover(but note this is for only the cover thinking like web useage or prints) for that issue only with no reprints. and web site useage is a different issue and pricing to.
i have mentioned copyright here several times, and this is the rights that you the photographer have for taking the image in the first place, now if you need to protect the image beyond that for legal reasons you have to register it with the US patent and copyright office(this would be mainly if someone has stolen your image and is claiming it as there own). Now if you come across the rare time that someone wants to completely buy out the photo you really have to think about how much this image is really worth to you and how much you stand to lose in future sales needsto be calculated into the price , but for most of use here i would outright sell a image for 5-25k this may seem high but its a very realistic price for a image and will weed out alot of the non serious types(for professionals this would be much higher)
but if you look online you will find various pricing guides and reccomendations.
as this is a real complicated subject if you have any specific questions post them or PM me and i will try to answer it as best as i can
I hope i didnt confuse anybody, but if you need clairification please ask
Tooth
Im not a professional but i do alot of items in this area as i have sold a fair number of photos in the past 2 years with the camps i help with and other photos in my collection.
first thing to remember is that is that you never give away a photo no matter how in significiant you think it is because it sets a precedent in the future that they can use you for very cheap because of your past, this means even if its a tag line, or a small amount will keep the deal, but also remember to get a written agreement that this is a onetime use of the image (or for a certain amount of time , for the web) and that you still retain the copyright of the image. That if in the future more images are needed they must contact you to arrange that. the reason you need to write this out is that i have had people who bought prints from me who thought that once they bought the image that they owned it and could do what ever they wanted including copies, which isnt correct because on the back of the photo i had stamped copyrighted image, for reprints contact XXX for permission. this lady said that wasnt fair, and my comment to her was that she should have read the fine print on the order form before buying it. this is just one example of how not stating the boundries that people can twist them for there own use
Now for prints, the prices i have charged have varied depending on the subject and number of photos being bought. but on average im around $4-6 for 4x6 , ~ $8 for 5x7, and $20 for 8x10, but those are subject to change.
now if its a magazine that is asking for useage of your photo it is a totally different ballgame in that there are general standards already in place.
i use this tool to calculate the rate http://www.editorialphoto.com/contracts/estimatorweb.html , because thats a realm where the company will try to get you for a cheap as possible, and thats why i use the tool listed above.
now its a little complicated but if you know the info you need to input in the input fields it will calulate it for you. for example if say rodales wanted a cover shot for the cover of a issue based off there 185k subscribers and almost 17k full page ad rate for a cover photo you would negotate for 1500 for the right to use that photo for the cover(but note this is for only the cover thinking like web useage or prints) for that issue only with no reprints. and web site useage is a different issue and pricing to.
i have mentioned copyright here several times, and this is the rights that you the photographer have for taking the image in the first place, now if you need to protect the image beyond that for legal reasons you have to register it with the US patent and copyright office(this would be mainly if someone has stolen your image and is claiming it as there own). Now if you come across the rare time that someone wants to completely buy out the photo you really have to think about how much this image is really worth to you and how much you stand to lose in future sales needsto be calculated into the price , but for most of use here i would outright sell a image for 5-25k this may seem high but its a very realistic price for a image and will weed out alot of the non serious types(for professionals this would be much higher)
but if you look online you will find various pricing guides and reccomendations.
as this is a real complicated subject if you have any specific questions post them or PM me and i will try to answer it as best as i can
I hope i didnt confuse anybody, but if you need clairification please ask
Tooth
Eli
Guest
The link is very informative. Ive never sold a photo, but like many others I fantasized about being a professional photographer. I think for now I will keep my day job!
not a problem, its something that i have dealt with from time to time, for now im just a ameatuer student Photog with aspiration for more, most of my experince has come from others and my own mistakes and learning from them so to grow and not repeat them
FWIW
Tooth
FWIW
Tooth
ScubaTooth,
Thankyou very much for this advice. I'm a professional photographer above water and I can't thank you enough for encouraging amateurs to charge for their photos. The only difference between a pro and amateur, is that the pro will always bring back the shot. The pro also has a lot more cameras. There are many amateurs who show their photos on this board that are outstanding.
You all blow away my feeble U/W attempts.
While I don't shoot U/W professionally, I find in my specialty that all to often wannabe photographers give up all rights and usage for free because they are flattered. This is a terrible precedent to set. Look at what you do for a living. More than likely you are accomplished at your job. Now the next time you get your paycheck, return it to your boss and tell him/her that you are flattered but really can't accept this. This might aid you in your decision whether you should be compensated or not for your photos. In western society, that which has value to others has a price on it. Look at it another way: if you charge money for the photo then you can get a new camera or other piece of gear you have been saving for.
As to getting started - it helps to know your market. If you want to be published in a magazine then come up with a story idea and get half a dozen really nice photos depicting it. Write the story and then send it off to the photo editor of the magazine. Do your research though to make sure that the mag. has not published the same or similar story within the past 18 months. Keep the article to no more than 2000 words. Editors love this package format as long it looks and reads well. If they have a hole that needs filling then they may turn to your nice complete package. Once you start getting published it will become easier to get more images published. One thing about editoral, the magazines pay very little. Sports Illustrated pays under $1000. for a double page spread and they are the largest magazine out there. I'm guessing that a dive mag. would likely only pay $250. for the same usage. So don't look at editorial as a place to pay your bills. It is excellent for gaining credentials and moving to higher paying jobs. That said if you want to become a pro then expect to devote 3 - 5 years shooting and selling non stop. After that you maybe able to take a salary if you are working all the time. That's largely because you will spend your profits on trips and photo gear to increase your portfolio and exposure.
I shoot extreme sports above water. While I have been fortunate enough to travel all over the world in the past five years, I'm only now feeling as if I can take some of my profits as a salary. Unfortunately you will likely keep coming up with new gear, promotional ideas, trips etc... that you need, to make yourself even more successful.
Good luck and don't fear charging for you photos.
Thankyou very much for this advice. I'm a professional photographer above water and I can't thank you enough for encouraging amateurs to charge for their photos. The only difference between a pro and amateur, is that the pro will always bring back the shot. The pro also has a lot more cameras. There are many amateurs who show their photos on this board that are outstanding.
You all blow away my feeble U/W attempts.
While I don't shoot U/W professionally, I find in my specialty that all to often wannabe photographers give up all rights and usage for free because they are flattered. This is a terrible precedent to set. Look at what you do for a living. More than likely you are accomplished at your job. Now the next time you get your paycheck, return it to your boss and tell him/her that you are flattered but really can't accept this. This might aid you in your decision whether you should be compensated or not for your photos. In western society, that which has value to others has a price on it. Look at it another way: if you charge money for the photo then you can get a new camera or other piece of gear you have been saving for.
As to getting started - it helps to know your market. If you want to be published in a magazine then come up with a story idea and get half a dozen really nice photos depicting it. Write the story and then send it off to the photo editor of the magazine. Do your research though to make sure that the mag. has not published the same or similar story within the past 18 months. Keep the article to no more than 2000 words. Editors love this package format as long it looks and reads well. If they have a hole that needs filling then they may turn to your nice complete package. Once you start getting published it will become easier to get more images published. One thing about editoral, the magazines pay very little. Sports Illustrated pays under $1000. for a double page spread and they are the largest magazine out there. I'm guessing that a dive mag. would likely only pay $250. for the same usage. So don't look at editorial as a place to pay your bills. It is excellent for gaining credentials and moving to higher paying jobs. That said if you want to become a pro then expect to devote 3 - 5 years shooting and selling non stop. After that you maybe able to take a salary if you are working all the time. That's largely because you will spend your profits on trips and photo gear to increase your portfolio and exposure.
I shoot extreme sports above water. While I have been fortunate enough to travel all over the world in the past five years, I'm only now feeling as if I can take some of my profits as a salary. Unfortunately you will likely keep coming up with new gear, promotional ideas, trips etc... that you need, to make yourself even more successful.
Good luck and don't fear charging for you photos.
While from the outside it may appear that my occupation is very interesting or perhaps even glamorous, that's not the whole story. I spend less than a third of my year taking pictures. The other 66% is spent in my office mainly in front of my computer doing the business end of it - selling, digitizing, editing, billing and yes taking out the trash. The places that I go to are amazing in most cases, but I'm not there on vacation. While on a shoot the pressure is on to produce at the level that exceeds my clients expectations. While I love what I do, it's not like being care free on vacation.
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