Shark Men

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Unfortunately getting scientific funding is not always an easy task and I wouldn't have a problem if scientists went to "Hollywood" to help fund shows that are truly educational rather than sensational.

As for getting rich, I don't know if that is part of Domeier's intent. Although I don't like his current methods, I don't have any dislike for the man. When I went with him to Guadalupe Island in 2005, I sensed that he had a sincere interest in learning more about GWS. However, the current crew he is working with do not seem to have much in the way of research credentials.

Yeah, this is not really ablack and white type of issue. I do believe Dr. Domeier's main motivation is science, I know too many biologists, it is not an easy way to earn a living and nobody who pursues that career path has any misconceptions. I bet he is probably kept awake debating his methods and weighing the possible advances he could make with the potential side effects these methods could cause. It is possible I could change my mind completely in a year or two, when results start pouring in and we learn the sharks are not really being harmed.

From a funding perspective this is win-win, Domeier gets his research without depleting the pool of funds for other scientists, and may generate more interest via the "Steve Irwin Effect".

His crew on the other hand I feel much more cynical about. I am pretty positive that their motivations and rewards from this have nothing to do with science and perhaps even less with the continuation of this species.

White sharks are at the top of just about every big game angler's dream list, and are pretty much off limits to everyone. Here is a chance to not only target but land these sharks, as big as they can manage. Here in NJ you are supposed to cut your line as soon as you realize a white shark is hooked as opposed to a legal species. You are not allowing to land or bring them boatside for any reason.

I might be willing to entertain the notion of creative editing, however the show they produce gives the impression that these "anglers" are excitable and undisciplined. One episode I watched had them hunting in a RHIB despite captains orders to the contrary, and every show I have seen features crew members screaming at each other and arguing about tactics etc.

For giggles, the shrak tagging results I mentioned yesterday can be found here:

Between November 2003 and February 2004 a 12.50 foot female travelled from S. Africa to Australia, about 11k kilometers and at depths of up to 750 meters. This was recorded using a PAT tag, similar I guess to the research you assisted with?

I am very interested in the long term data from the SPOT tags, but really not liking the methods of this show...
 
Question re the tracking device: have there been any studies to determine the possible effects of the electrical field, generated by the tag, on the shark's electro-sensory perception, and by extension, "electrical signature" in interaction with other individuals.

As far as I know, the ability to detect electrical fields/signals, plays an important role in hunting, orientation, and possibly some other aspects of a shark's life, so, is it conceivable, that an electronic tag actually interferes(at least indirectly) with the GW's "normal" capabilities, habits and behaviour?
 
That's an interesting link, Drew. Her journey is amazing.

Yet from the last two pictures, the first that ran through my head was the line "You're gonna to need a bigger boat..."
 
Question re the tracking device: have there been any studies to determine the possible effects of the electrical field, generated by the tag, on the shark's electro-sensory perception, and by extension, "electrical signature" in interaction with other individuals.

As far as I know, the ability to detect electrical fields/signals, plays an important role in hunting, orientation, and possibly some other aspects of a shark's life, so, is it conceivable, that an electronic tag actually interferes(at least indirectly) with the GW's "normal" capabilities, habits and behaviour?

That is a great question. I am not aware of specific studies, but I would hazard a guess that the tags that have been used in the past do not interfere. There are enough tagged sharks being observed that we should have seen something by now. These new tags that are more permanent, perhaps higher power? The short answer is I do not know.

The sharks in the aquarium I dive in are not at all bothered by the various electrical fields flowing through the exhibits from the pumps etc, but then they do not have to navigate long distances so I can't be sure.

One thing I would guess at though, whatever electrical fields and pulses the animals are using are probably not close at all in respect to the type of electricity used to power the tags and transmit the date via SPOT technology. The DC power used to power the device should be well shielded, and the tag transmits only briefly when it breaks the surface. I think any impact would be minimal if any.

EDIT-

Yes, Nicole's story is amazing for sure, mind boggling even. If you want to see this in the flesh so to speak, the show you want to look for is Great White Odyssey. It was just on last night, coincidentally, on Nat Geo channel.
 
Tagging sounds like it'd be useful for conservation but when I think about it I cannot figure out what's useful about it. It seems like rather than keep track of sharks, all that really has to be done is to make an effort against shark finning. Don't get me wrong there's some value in tagging sharks such as that hispanic dude in that documentury "shark highway" who tagged sharks to find their routes between protected zones and get the routes protected, but the shark men don't do that.

If they find juvenile sharks, males ready to breed, and pregnant females, it's a mating ground. I don't see why they need more than one episode and more than 3 sharks to figure that out (one of each mentioned type.)

I also remember in one episode they were talking about how they were holding out for a twenty foot female. For a fisherman who wants to have a spectacular fishing trip, I can understand why a twenty footer is ideal, but for science I don't understand why they need a female of any particular size, as long as she's of sexual maturity.

Not to mention they handled that extremely unprofessionally by getting overexcited at the first shark they saw (13 foot male) and threw their gear in the water before they got it properly set up. They almost got seriously injured, and they couldn't get the damn hook out of the shark's mouth. They claim that the hook will decompose in just a few days, but I googled to see if any hooks did that and I couldn't find such a hook (I admit this doesn't disprove the hook's existence.)

From what I can tell, the only guys worse for sharks than these guys are ones that catch sharks for soup, catch them recreationally without catch and release, or eat shark fins.

Btw, have you guys heard of a hook strong enough to catch a great white that decomposes in just a few days?
 
Tagging sounds like it'd be useful for conservation but when I think about it I cannot figure out what's useful about it.

Tagging is probably the best way we have right now to study sharks, especially species like great whites. We really do not know very much about them still, such as where they breed, where they birth, how and where they spend the rest of the year. Where do juveniles grow? What happens when they get to certain age/size? Is there an intermediate ground? With this information we can make educated decisions about regulating fisheries. Is is not just about limiting shark finning, but also drift nets and other types of fishing where sharks are a by-catch.
If they find juvenile sharks, males ready to breed, and pregnant females, it's a mating ground. I don't see why they need more than one episode and more than 3 sharks to figure that out (one of each mentioned type.)

Actually you need a lot more than just a one or even a few tagged sharks to tell you anything. Science is about accumulating massive amounts of data and then seeing what the entire amount tells you. Think of it like flipping a coin, you have a 50/50 chance of landing on heads. But let's say we alter the coin to give us a 75% chance of heads. How to test this?

If we flip the coin 4 times and get 3 heads, that tells us what? Statistically speaking nothing, pure chance can give us these results. How about 40 flips? That is better of course but we could still expect chance to show similar results. 400 flips with 300 heads is starting to show some real results, 1000 or 4000 flips, now we have something. Now we can make accurate predictions about how specific modifications alters chance.

Same goes with sharks. So we catch a gravid (pregnant) female. Is this an oddity in this area? She could be just passing through OR she could be hanging out here. What about that make with sperm in his claspers? Do mature males always have sperm present?

The more individuals we sample and tag the more information we have to base theories on, the more we know for a near certainty about this species.

How about those juveniles? Where do they grow up? What are they feeding on? Is there a certain time of year when juveniles start to follow migrations? Perhaps yearling or 2 year old sharks follow tuna schools. Maybe that is how populations get new bloodlines? So perhaps certain times of the year in certain locations we need to restrict tuna fishing.

These are but a few questions and possible answers that tagging will help with, but we need lots of tags and several years to fully assimilate the data.

Scientists already have some ideas about those questions, but more data is needed. Perhaps the overall accumulated data shows that the hypothesis are correct, but maybe the data will contradict. If the first few sharks tagged were anomalies then everything based on that data is incorrect for a given population.
I also remember in one episode they were talking about how they were holding out for a twenty foot female. For a fisherman who wants to have a spectacular fishing trip, I can understand why a twenty footer is ideal, but for science I don't understand why they need a female of any particular size, as long as she's of sexual maturity.

If they can get blood samples that would help. After enough studies we will know for example if 20 feet is prime breeding age, or perhaps she is over the hill. We could learn this by comparing hormone levels for example. We really need data from as many of every category as possible.

to mention they handled that extremely unprofessionally by getting overexcited at the first shark they saw (13 foot male) and threw their gear in the water before they got it properly set up. They almost got seriously injured, and they couldn't get the damn hook out of the shark's mouth. They claim that the hook will decompose in just a few days, but I googled to see if any hooks did that and I couldn't find such a hook (I admit this doesn't disprove the hook's existence.)
While the data they gather may prove to be extremely valuable, things like this cast doubt. The unprofessionalism of the crew makes me cringe as well.
Btw, have you guys heard of a hook strong enough to catch a great white that decomposes in just a few days?

Not in a few days no, but I can't say that such a hook doesn't exist. Just a thought though, barbless circle hooks should work better. Circle hooks mean the shark will hook itself, and as long as they maintain tension on the line the shark will not be able to spit the hook. Whats more without the barb it will be easily removed or if the line snaps the shark will be free of the hook in an hour or less.

But maybe they thought of that and it didn't work in testing, IDK...
 
The barbless hook idea makes sense. After the incident in the Farallons, they said they modified the hooks by filing off the barbs and showed a picture of someone with a grinder taking them down. From all indications, the modified hook was what they used to hook the sharks when the park administrator was aboard.

Yet on the next episode (or possibly the one after), they again showed a hook with barb intact (or appeared to be in tact). Stock footage? Me being a knit-picker and nay sayer or just not seeing a filed down barb? I would be interested to know if they stuck with the modified design or went back their original hooks once they returned to Mexican waters?
 
Even if we learn something significant from all this shark tagging and they don't maim the sharks terribly, they will still have bolted crap onto the dorsal fin and jabbed through the jaw of a significant portion of the sharks in the area. If I was a tourist in Guadalupe traveling for thousands of miles to see some of these incredible beasts only to have every one show up with stuff hanging off its dorsal fin and a big hook hanging from its jaw (or a wound), I'd be pissed!
 
It beats having my kids watch american idol or dancing with the stars. I kind of like the shows....... From a scientific point I can see where people would have an aversion, especially with the fishermen, they get excited for sure, but that is what they do. Have you seen a Sat morning fishing show when they catch a 10 pound bass? You'd think they were Jesus summoning the four horsemen with all the screaming and shouting that goes on! You can't make T.V. show without some “show".
 
It beats having my kids watch american idol or dancing with the stars. I kind of like the shows....... From a scientific point I can see where people would have an aversion, especially with the fishermen, they get excited for sure, but that is what they do. Have you seen a Sat morning fishing show when they catch a 10 pound bass? You'd think they were Jesus summoning the four horsemen with all the screaming and shouting that goes on! You can't make T.V. show without some “show".

The difference is, that in those idiotic shows, you're mentioning, Humans are putting Humans on display for entertainment, in "Sharkmen" the subject is, even if as fearsome and potentially dangerous as a GW, ultimately defenseless against the self-proclaimed "Masters of the Universe" doing "their thing" in the name of "science" ... Wonder, what the ratings would be, if they were tagging Nurse Sharks...
 

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