Question Sidemount Regs M1 or MTX-R?

[gills4brains]

Tec Diver (mixed gas/cave) looking to upgrade my sidemount regs. Trying to choose between Atomic M1s and Apeks MTX-Rs, but need help deciding on which.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have been diving and servicing HOGs for years. Most of the issues I see are related to care and in some cases the regs not properly set up or serviced.
The D1s were not designed for and not really recommended for sidemount.
The D3 were specifically designed for sidemount for that reason.
Free flow issues can often be dealt with by getting them serviced or servicing them yourself properly and tuning them correctly.
If the seconds are stored with the adjustment knobs turned to the tightest setting it will shorten the life of the seat.
Making use of the microadjust on the breathing effort knob on the newer seconds (last 3 years or so) allows the user to set the cracking without messing with the orifice.
It is not unusual to see seconds needing rebuilt before 1sts. It's the nature of the seats and the material they are made from.
I have to ask, when there is an issue, have you had a good tech take a look at them? Or just figured I'll turn the adjustment knob and deal with it?
I have also seen divers take the regs to a tech not trained on the HOG regs and get back something that is not set up properly and even with generic parts put in because the shop did not want to lose the service work to an actual tech qualified to work on them.
And yes, there are some HOG techs out there whose work I question.

 

[tbone1004]

seconding everything @Jim Lapenta said. While I own many Deep6 Signatures which are a step-change improvement from the HOG D3's that were also designed by @cerich , I can't in good conscience say I would consider either the M1 or the MTX-R a meaningful upgrade. I dove some of the D3 prototypes, I know @Edd Sorenson has beat the ever living hell out of his from some of the original prototypes to production versions and while no regulator is immune from bad service/tuning or soft part issues from the suppliers, I can't really see the others as an upgrade.

Here's why.
Neither the Apeks nor the Atomic are end-user serviceable. For technical diving this is HUGE! While you may not choose to service your own regulators and opt to send them in, carrying the service kits with you is huge when travelling and generally knowing how to service them or tune/adjust them in massive. HOG was the first to openly support this thanks to Chris and it's hugely beneficial in technical diving.

The Atomic is a piston design which while perfectly fine is not a regulator design that I would actively choose for technical diving due to the increased care required to make sure that salt/debris don't scar the piston. Is it a major issue? No, certainly not, but it is there and it does happen vs. a sealed diaphragm that isn't nearly as particular about getting rinsed off.

Apeks MTX-R while balanced, is not adjustable which means as the seat breaks in you don't have the ability to tune the second stages. On my personal Deep6 Signatures I will tune them to the bitter end of performance and after 5-10 dives they will start to freeflow slightly *barely a hiss at the surface and bubbling in the water, not a gushing freeflow* as the seat breaks itself in. A half turn back on the adjustment knob is enough to stop the bleed and whenever I get around to it I will retune the second stage and happy days. I typically retune the regulators every 50 dives or so just to maintain the best performance possible. It takes 5 minutes with a wrench and an allen key and is well worth it. You can do that with the MTX-R but without the adjustment knob it becomes more of a necessity to maintain the best performance. MTX-RC solves the adjustment knob, but $2500 is a painful pill to swallow.

 

[EdwinOcean]

I have MTX-RCs on my sidemount setup and for my doubles. I’m in Ohio and regularly dive them in very cold quarries and the Lakes. Never had a problem. They are pricey as has been mentioned.

 

[Doby45]

That is surprising to hear about Hog D1s. That is all I have ever used for 100s of technical dives in a SM setup. I have the fifth port and find hose routing and durability to be top notch. Also, servicing the regs are comically simple.

 

[gills4brains]

I have been diving and servicing HOGs for years. Most of the issues I see are related to care and in some cases the regs not properly set up or serviced.
The D1s were not designed for and not really recommended for sidemount.
The D3 were specifically designed for sidemount for that reason.
Free flow issues can often be dealt with by getting them serviced or servicing them yourself properly and tuning them correctly.
If the seconds are stored with the adjustment knobs turned to the tightest setting it will shorten the life of the seat.
Making use of the microadjust on the breathing effort knob on the newer seconds (last 3 years or so) allows the user to set the cracking without messing with the orifice.
It is not unusual to see seconds needing rebuilt before 1sts. It's the nature of the seats and the material they are made from.
I have to ask, when there is an issue, have you had a good tech take a look at them? Or just figured I'll turn the adjustment knob and deal with it?
I have also seen divers take the regs to a tech not trained on the HOG regs and get back something that is not set up properly and even with generic parts put in because the shop did not want to lose the service work to an actual tech qualified to work on them.
And yes, there are some HOG techs out there whose work I question

Your insight on the service component is very interesting to me. I've had my regs serviced by two different techs, but I cannot vouch for their experience or ability. Now you have me wondering if that is the issue, vice the regs themselves.

FWIW, the feedback I received on this thread has me seriously considering the XTX50s now, but I also don't want to make a needless purchase.

 

[Marie13]

FWIW, the feedback I received on this thread has me seriously considering the XTX50s now, but I also don't want to make a needless purchase.

You won’t regret the XTX50/DST. They’re work horses. Pricey, though.

 

[tbone1004]

I

Your insight on the service component is very interesting to me. I've had my regs serviced by two different techs, but I cannot vouch for their experience or ability. Now you have me wondering if that is the issue, vice the regs themselves.

FWIW, the feedback I received on this thread has me seriously considering the XTX50s now, but I also don't want to make a needless purchase.

I would not consider them a meaningful improvement to the D3. Performance will be no better and their chroming is not as high quality as HOG due to UK regulations. They're fine, but I would not consider them an "upgrade". Send your D3's off to someone who actually knows how to work on them and you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Valyngar]

Tec Diver (mixed gas/cave) looking to upgrade my sidemount regs. Trying to choose between Atomic M1s and Apeks MTX-Rs, but need help deciding on which.

Don't buy Mtx-r buy mtx-rc. Rc has flow adjustments.

 

[pconsidine]

You won’t regret the XTX50/DST. They’re work horses. Pricey, though.

not as pricey as MTX-R

 

[gills4brains]

I

I would not consider them a meaningful improvement to the D3. Performance will be no better and their chroming is not as high quality as HOG due to UK regulations. They're fine, but I would not consider them an "upgrade". Send your D3's off to someone who actually knows how to work on them and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Is there anything you would consider a meaningful upgrade? Not giving up on the hogs, but not entirely sure how long it will take me to find a good tech to work on them.