Size Of The Technical Diving Market

[stuartv]

The rest just walk into a friendly-looking dive shop, sign up, and hope to get it over with.

Reasonable. Now I'm curious. I've never really thought about asking the people I meet at my two LDS how they found the shop or chose it over other options. I'm going to start asking!

But, I have to say in advance that I will be surprised if there are many who didn't ask around at all and also only went into the one shop.

If someone chooses a shop without asking around at all, and also without going into any other shops, then they would clearly have no chance of being influenced at all by any tech divers. But, for all the rest, it seems like there would at least be a chance that word of mouth might influence them, or seeing two shops and one looking like it takes diving more seriously or offers things from tropical OW-friendly all the way up to higher levels or are patronized by more experienced divers might influence them.

Of course, if the shop looks too "techy", that might actually be intimidating and put some prospects off. I'm sure there is a very fine line there.

 

[stuartv]

If you decided on a total lark that you wanted to do your first ever sky dive, would you find the nearest jump school, go there and just do it? Even if they appeared to be a little mom and pop operation with one plane, probably barely staying in business, and with one very friendly jumpmaster who did nothing but talk about how much fun you are going to have?

Or would you look around to see what options you have? And if you also found a jump school that had multiple planes, everything looked very professional, business-like and well-maintained, with evidence of offering very advanced sky diving training, and you could see people who looked like and were talking as if they jump a lot and do advanced things, and when you talk to them about what you want, they talk to you about the safety training you'll have to go through or whatever, would you go back to the mom-and-pop fun school? Or trust your life to the school that looked like they offer what you want but also are skilled and experienced enough to do much more advanced stuff?

I suppose there are people who would just go into the mom-and-pop and do their jump. But, I would hope that the majority would put a least a tiny bit more effort into choosing their school than that.

 

[Lorenzoid]

But, I have to say in advance that I will be surprised if there are many who didn't ask around at all and also only went into the one shop. . . .

I did. But that was before most shops had web sites. I wasn't aware there was more than one "agency" or that instruction quality, class size, or anything else could vary. It was a dive shop that I had driven past many times and seen their banners advertising "learn to dive" or something to that effect. I would guess that nowadays people interested in learning to dive start by doing a little Googling. It would be interesting to know how many end up physically walking into more than one dive shop before signing up with one. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but my guess is that the average Joe or Jane doesn't do a lot of physical shopping around. That there is more than one agency and that things can vary from instructor to instructor are still not widely publicized, since most shops deal with only one agency. Now, if someone stumbles across SB or other such discussion board and starts reading the prospective diver threads, then the real fun (and confusion) begins. Anyway, this is getting away from the question I chimed in on: What effect--positive, negative, or neutral--a tech-y atmosphere at a dive shop might have on the decisions of the majority of prospective OW students whether to sign up. I would not just assume it has a positive effect.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
I suppose there are people who would just go into the mom-and-pop and do their jump. But, I would hope that the majority would put a least a tiny bit more effort into choosing their school than that.

I don't think most people view skydiving and scuba diving the same way. I think people believe--rightly or wrongly--that scuba diving is safer, and that a scuba certification is a scuba certification and they will be fine. I think people who want to learn to skydive inherently understand the gravity of their decision (pun intended).

 

[Lemuzzon]

It would be interesting to know how many end up physically walking into more than one dive shop before signing up with one.

It would be interesting to see whether ANYONE under the age of 50 does this...

On a separate note, I would be one of the people who would walk out of a super "techy" dive shop, probably because I can't stand pushy sales people and I don't want to be convinced to buy something unless I specifically ask "what are the differences between option A and option B?" If someone started talking about equipment that was well over my head, I would just say BYE.

 

[StefinSB]

If you decided on a total lark that you wanted to do your first ever sky dive, would you find the nearest jump school, go there and just do it? Even if they appeared to be a little mom and pop operation with one plane, probably barely staying in business, and with one very friendly jumpmaster who did nothing but talk about how much fun you are going to have?

Or would you look around to see what options you have? And if you also found a jump school that had multiple planes, everything looked very professional, business-like and well-maintained, with evidence of offering very advanced sky diving training, and you could see people who looked like and were talking as if they jump a lot and do advanced things, and when you talk to them about what you want, they talk to you about the safety training you'll have to go through or whatever, would you go back to the mom-and-pop fun school? Or trust your life to the school that looked like they offer what you want but also are skilled and experienced enough to do much more advanced stuff?

I suppose there are people who would just go into the mom-and-pop and do their jump. But, I would hope that the majority would put a least a tiny bit more effort into choosing their school than that.

Not the greatest example. I venture to say that most small dropzones do just have one plane. At least that's the way it was when I was still active in the Bay Area. I also think that the opposite selection process is true. I pick the personalized small place anytime over the industrial looking factory.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Having large supplier & maintenance contracts with Los Angeles County Fire & Law Enforcement Agencies, and passing additional stock inventory as package deals along with courses to the Recreational OW Diver . . . Pacific Wilderness Dive Shop:

• We’ve been in business since 1953
• All employees are experienced DiveMasters, Instructors or Master Divers
• We are the largest Dive specialty store in LA & Orange County!
• We Service everything we sell – in house, including on Site Tank Hydro-Testing, Regulator, Dive Computer, Gauge & B. C. Servicing.
• Indoor Heated Pool on Site – 12 feet deep and a comfortable 88 degrees.
• We are Dive Supplier and maintain equipment for:

• Los Angeles Police Department
• Los Angeles Fire Department
• Los Angeles Port Police
• US Coast Guard
• Long Beach Aquarium
• Sheriff’s Emergency Services Division [OC & CCR Tech support]
• Orange County Sheriffs
• U.S.C. – Wrigley Institute (Santa Catalina Island)
• Cabrillo Marine Aquarium
• Cousteau’s Catalina Camp

 

[KevinNM]

On a separate note, I would be one of the people who would walk out of a super "techy" dive shop, probably because I can't stand pushy sales people and I don't want to be convinced to buy something unless I specifically ask "what are the differences between option A and option B?" If someone started talking about equipment that was well over my head, I would just say BYE.

I've been in a few of the shops that are "super techy" and they were all laid back about selling stuff. They are glad to sell you a $5000 scooter if that's what you want, but they are not going to try to talk you into it unless you come in looking for a scooter, then they will sell you the model that they personally bought after a long evaluation process.

 

[sea_ledford]

It would be interesting to see whether ANYONE under the age of 50 does this...

On a separate note, I would be one of the people who would walk out of a super "techy" dive shop, probably because I can't stand pushy sales people and I don't want to be convinced to buy something unless I specifically ask "what are the differences between option A and option B?" If someone started talking about equipment that was well over my head, I would just say BYE.

In my experience the tech shops are much less pushy about purchasing stuff. I worked in a non-techy diveshop and my job was to sell things, which I wasn't very good at because I was honest with people. Some days it would be a full set of reg, bc, computer, tank, wetsuit, etc, but it was mostly mask fins snorkels for students, and whatever widget just needed to be bought that day. Lots of crap went out the door. Divers and (hopefully) employees of tech oriented shops will get that you are looking for a very specific type of swivel snap, and no the brass-ish one from china won't do. Speaking of... does anyone still sell butterfly snaps? Having a hard time finding them anymore.

The other issue with being a tech shop is the gear just doesn't need to be replaced very often. I bought my first back plate in 2005. Still using it. How long will a pair of jet fins last? Those crappy retractor clips will be replaced every year or two for $60, but a good stainless boltsnap? Replace when lost at $10. Harnesses wear out after several hundred dives maybe, but that's only $25 in webbing unless you can sell them a whole new "harness" for $150. The shop might sell a bunch more regs though, and can make much more off of training. A fully kitted out tech diver might spend $10K on gear (not including very specialty items like CCRs, scooters or cameras), but it usually takes years and the likelihood that it'll all be bought from the same place isn't very high.

What really makes a shop tech friendly is training and gas blending not the type of stuff they sell. So the shop has to invest in a $10k booster, another 5K-10K or so (assuming they already have a decent compressor) in other gas managements systems and keep O2 and He on tap. Have a set of doubles and a couple backplate and wings on hand to see how they work then order as needed when they sell and probably a few sets of rental tanks - doubles and 40's. Most of that is behind the scene, so otherwise it's just a dive shop, they still have all the same stuff as every other dive shop, there just might be more metal and less plastic.

Will the shop ever make up that $30K investment to mostly look the same as it did before? I guess it depends on the location, owners, employees and instructors. But considering the razor thin margins of most dive shops, no they won't. I certainly applaud those that can do it though!

-Chris

 

[stuartv]

Speaking of... does anyone still sell butterfly snaps?

These?

DGX Snap, Sliding Bolt, Swivel-Eye, Butterfly {3.75 in | 9.5 cm} S/S | Dive Gear Express®

I think I also saw them being stocked at a local tack shop (equestrian supplies) along with bolt snaps, double enders, and other handy items. The ones I saw *looked* like good quality, but I don't know what the actual materials were.