Skip SDI Advanced Adventure (AOW) and go straight to specialties

[rgdiver1]

It's amazing how convoluted this has become. There's no substitute for actual experience and for good primary training.

 

[topher10]

I agree. The primary goal is not getting the cert-cards as much as getting solid additional training and exposure to new ideas and criticism. But I do want it to be an efficient use of my time and money, and I will be honest in saying that I do want credit, even if its not the primary goal.

 

[stuartv]

Received open water cert 2 years and 15 dives ago. Would like to go back for additional instruction at a different shop/instructor for various reasons and considering SDI as the agency, though not certain.
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The question is: Why bother with the Advanced Adventure, since it only gives you a taste of specialties but you still have to take all the specialties to actually advance anyway.

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The point is that Advanced Adventure feels to bit a little bit of a waste of time (and money). However, its possible that the dive shop may in essence require me to do it, because that is how its done and they want to get to know me first before I launch into specialties.

Thoughts?

I agree 100% and that is exactly what I did. I did SDI OW, then skipped Advanced Adventure and went straight to taking the full specialty courses for the things I wanted to learn.

The only reason I know of to take SDI Advanced Adventure (or PADI Advanced Open Water) is if you think you need that card in order to get on the dive boats you want to get on. But, even if you think that, I would suggest to check around and re-think that. Unless that's really as far as you care to go in your training anyway. Then, sure, knock out AAD/AOW and be done. Otherwise...

One, I have never been asked for a higher level card than OW, even on boats where they specifically say Advanced is required. And I have made a point a few times of only showing them my OW and Nitrox cards, instead of my higher cards, just to test that. Most places I've been have some questions on the waiver about how many dives you've done or maybe how many in the last 12 months, and when your last dive was. I think if they see that you are not fresh out of OW and have been diving at least once in the last month or two they are pretty unlikely to ask to see an "Advanced" card. But, my experience is not that much. I'm sure there probably are boats that will ask to see some kind of C card for more advanced training!

Two, I think that places that say they require Advanced would generally accept a Deep specialty card in lieu of an Advanced card. It seems to me that they really just want to see that you've had more training than just basic OW and that you have had some kind of training or experience in diving deeper than 60', at least. Regardless, if you knock out 4 specialties, you'll have more than 25 dives and be able get your Advanced Scuba Diver card and then you will be able to satisfy any of those operators.

I think your plan to take Nitrox and Deep first is a good one. By the time you finish, you should have 20+ dives and with those two cards, I would bet you'll be able to get on pretty much any normal recreational charter that you want. But, call ahead and confirm!

I think CaptTightPants is wrong about SDI vs TDI Nitrox. The course curriculum and standards for SDI Nitrox (aka Computer Nitrox) is way less than for TDI Nitrox. But, it is true than any given Nitrox instructor may choose to teach everything that would be in TDI Nitrox in the SDI Nitrox class. But, a lot of that material will not be on the official SDI Nitrox final exam.

I have taken both SDI and TDI Nitrox. My opinion is, if you don't plan to go into Tech diving, then don't bother taking the TDI Nitrox course. It's more money and the extra money will net exactly zero difference in your diving. All it does is give you extra theory and training on doing calculations manually and using tables. Stuff you won't do if you're doing recreational diving with a computer anyway. OTOH, if you think you even might go into Tech diving, then you may as well skip SDI Nitrox and just go ahead and take TDI Nitrox. TDI Nitrox is a prerequisite for Advanced Nitrox, which is combined with Deco Procedures (usually) to form the first real TDI tech course. Assuming you go the TDI route for tech, anyway.

I never took the Night specialty. I went on a couple of night dives with boat charters and the DMs always covered basic light signals, etc.. I've also done plenty of other training dives in the local quarries where the visibility is normally 6' or less. I've never really felt like I would get my money's worth out of a Night diving specialty course.

I also never took underwater navigation. I was a Boy Scout. I've had solid orienteering skills for years. Underwater has its differences but, again, not something I thought I needed to pay somebody to teach me.

After Nitrox and Deep, I would consider these:

Wreck - with a decent instructor, you should learn how to deploy an SMB, how to run a reel to lay a guideline, light signaling, some basic navigation stuff. The Wreck course I took was the most valuable course I have taken, prior to starting tech training.

Search and Recovery - I have not taken this specialty. But, the basics were included in the Rescue class when I took that and I thought it was really good stuff to learn and train on and I may yet go back and take the full specialty just to learn more about it.

Cavern - I have not taken this specialty, either, but it is definitely on my list. This class would be another good dose of training in buoyancy control and trim, finning techniques, running reels, and light signals. Even if you don't progress on to Intro to Cave, you should still learn a lot of really good stuff that will help you no matter what kind of diving you do.

Underwater Photography - I have not taken this, either. And I believe that with anything other than a very good instructor it would be pretty much a waste of time. But, with a really good instructor, if you have any interest in shooting photos or video underwater, this course would be VERY helpful in many ways. You should get a good dose of training on buoyancy control and trim, various finning techniques, and then a whole raft of info on actually taking pictures underwater, that you would otherwise have to learn by spending a lot of time reading books. U/w photography is LIKE surface photography, but it's different enough that being good at one wouldn't carry over a huge amount to the other.

Once you have 4 specialties and enough dives, then you can do your CPROx AED course (I took the DAN DEMP course for this and would recommend it to anyone) and take Rescue Diver to complete your Master Scuba Diver requirements.

As for Solo vs Intro to Tech, all I can say about that is that I just did Solo a couple of months ago, after already being a certified tech diver. I did not learn anything new in that course. And my Solo instructor told me that he does not teach people to dive Solo. For people that come to him for Solo certification, he takes them out and essentially does an assessment (versus teaching a class). He first runs you through the exam from the course book to make sure you have the knowledge. And, of course, he makes sure you have the prerequisite number of dives. At that point, he just goes diving with you and assesses whether you are diving properly to be doing it on your own. His feeling is that if you don't have enough experience to know what you're doing on your own without him teaching it to you, then you're not ready to dive Solo yet.

So, my personal perspective is that I wouldn't take Solo to learn. I would take Intro to Tech. I would take Solo simply to get the Solo card - which is what I did. I already felt comfortable and competent to dive alone. I just wanted the card so I can go to dive parks and dive by myself - generally, so that I can practice skills and drills without having to have a buddy that is just sitting there bored to death. Or so i can go out on a charter boat without having to bring my own buddy and dive without having to be buddied up with a stranger.

Since I listed several courses that I did not take, you may be wondering what I actually did take. I took Computer Nitrox, Advanced Buoyancy Control, Drysuit, Wreck, Deep, and Rescue. Plus tech courses. I thought Advanced Buoyancy Control was a waste of time (though that was certainly in part because I believe the instructor I had for that was complete crap). You'll get the same and more from Wreck and/or Cavern. Drysuit doesn't sound like something that you will need. I took it because I bought a drysuit and I read some things that suggested SOME places won't let you dive dry unless you have a Drysuit Diver C card. I have since decided that I think it's more likely that it's just that nobody will RENT you a drysuit unless you have the C card. It's hard for me to imagine showing up for a dive that I paid for, with my own drysuit, and being told I can't use it because I don't have a drysuit C card. Certainly nobody has ever asked to see my Drysuit card. But, whatever. The class was cheap and only took a day.

 

[Marie13]

Stuart, my understanding from DRIS (where I got my OW through) is that once you've had the 4 SDI specialties, you get the advanced card.

 

[CptTightPants21]

That is basically what I was thinking. I will just need to talk with the shop/instructors and see how they feel.

Stuart, my understanding from DRIS (where I got my OW through) is that once you've had the 4 SDI specialties, you get the advanced card.

No, you need 25 dives as well. But after 4 specialties and a little more diving, it really isn't hard to get. The classes plus your OW dives alone put you at least 50% there.

 

[topher10]

Thanks for the very detailed reply. I haven't decided on my specific choices for specialty, and some of that may depend on what the instructors feel they are best suited for eaching. To be honest I am interested in more than 5: Nitrox, Deep, Nav, Night, Hunter, Intro to Tech, Wreck, Search and Recovery, Bouyancy, and Shore. Certainly wont do all of those, but they are on the list at the moment.

 

[Doby45]

Stuart, my understanding from DRIS (where I got my OW through) is that once you've had the 4 SDI specialties, you get the advanced card.

And only a single specialty can be non-diving. Such as SDI Computer Nitrox.

 

[stuartv]

Stuart, my understanding from DRIS (where I got my OW through) is that once you've had the 4 SDI specialties, you get the advanced card.

Right. 4 specialties (only one non-diving) and 25 dives. Did I say something different? If so, I'll correct it.

If you're just referring to the fact that I listed more than 4, I didn't say he had to do them all to get Advanced. I said to consider those as options to choose from. Obviously, if he does Nitrox and Deep, then he only needs 2 more to get Advanced (as his number of dives is already enough to ensure he'll have 25 after all those classes).

@topher10, if you do Deep, Wreck, and Intro to Tech, I'd bet a dollar you will decide you don't need to spend money to take Advanced Buoyancy. And if you do still want more training to help you work on your buoyancy, I would totally suggest to consider Cavern, instead of Advanced Buoyancy. If you read through the course standards and procedures for Advanced Buoyancy Control, you'll see it's only 2 dives, both of which can be in a pool The material is super basic and everyone should learn in OW class. Of course, a good instructor CAN use the time and opportunity to go way above and beyond, but the course itself should be a total gimme for anyone who has already done Deep and Wreck. And especially if you've done Intro to Tech.

My opinion, anyway, which is worth exactly what you paid for it. ;-)

 

[Marie13]

Stuart, even though I quoted you, I was actually more responding to other posts. The differences in whatever we call the SDI full advanced just keep me confused!

I'm doing to do the advanced buoyancy first thing in the spring, but it's outside of the full advanced for me, as my fave instructor teaches it, and boy do I need the work on this. Has nothing to do with quality of instruction, I just happen to struggle with it.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What everyone also needs to consider is the instructor teaching the courses. A common misconception is that Advanced Adventure is just a taste of advanced dives. It can be, yes.
But to say it is with every instructor is false. When it is offered by an instructor that recognizes what the card actually is and does it can take on a whole new meaning and be much more than a taste or tour. The Advanced Adventure card, like other agencies AOW or Advanced Level Diver (SEI), often gives the diver access to dives and sites with a higher degree of difficulty and risk.
To give them just a taste or tour of the dives is irresponsible and possibly dangerous. Recognizing this some instructors, myself included, teach the class with that in mind and make it more than a taste or tour of the dives. We have set dives with performance goals that must be met before the card is issued. There are minimum skill levels to even start the class that are required. We cover detailed gas management, emergency deco, rescue skills, and place heavy emphasis on buddy skills and dive planning.
Bob Bailey, aka NW Grateful Diver here on the board, is a NAUI instructor with the same approach. Kosta Koeman is a PADI instructor in the Seattle area also approaches advanced training in this way. John Baker of ScubaJohn's Dive Shop in Gilbert, South Carolina is another SDI/TDI instructor I'd recommend highly. I'm sure there are others from every agency that would love to have a student that insists on this level of training and have fun teaching it.
My new book details the class I teach and offers advice on how to find a similar level of training from any instructor willing to offer it. As well as looking at the risks, the skills you should have, what you should end up with, and why you need those skills and knowledge.
Don't dismiss the AOW, Advanced Adventure, or Advanced Level class outright. Get with the right instructor and the class will put many Intro to Tech classes to shame.