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So I made a Toddy Style instructional video for liveaboards...

Discussion in 'Sidemount Diving' started by roman50, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. roman50

    roman50 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Prague
    28
    17
    Please don't be too hard on me, just 150 dives over past 3 years and fairly new to a side mount. I am a photo/video person so when I dive I am typically left behind which led me to a need for spare air. Which led me to side mount which led me to Toddy.

    After practicing it a little bit I became totally vested in it and recommending it in connection with Ratio Computer and their wireless transmitters to everyone because I honestly think if this setup as a safety device. That the trim is awesome is a nice side bonus for me.

    And because my initial experience with it on a live aboard / safari boat was a bit messy I decided to create a little instructional video as what logistics of using it on live aboard could be in order not to be a too much of nuisance for other single cylinder divers.

    I will appreciate any comment how other divers, not only SM divers, see the benefits of such SM setup for regular divers. Cheers!

     
    Cdncoldwater likes this.
  2. tbone1004

    tbone1004 Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    18,790
    11,313
    first thing I noticed is ditch the bloody SPG's and the hoses. SO MANY needless failure points. Keep the SPG's as spares in your save a dive kit, but get them off the rig. I don't know if Toddy is recommending that setup, but it is an abomination and serves no purpose other than massively increasing the odds of a leak. If we don't need redundant SPG's over a mile back in a cave, no one on a liveaboard needs them. Transmitters on hoses is counterproductive as well, straight to the first stage.

    Left bottle is far better on a necklace. It can pop out easily, but no need to clip it off.

    Use top attachment points so the bottle isn't flopping around. Super dangerous doing a backroll and overall just inconvenient. A neck leash is easily removeable and would keep the bottle clipped to your d-ring.
    No need to unclip the bottle from your body when you deploy the primary hose, if you need to remove the bottom clip then your hose routing needs to change, but that is added argument for the top attachment point.

    Personally if I needed a second bottle, I would just use a single tank backmount rig which is easier to move around and then sidemount the left bottle. Much easier on a boat in my experience.

    In terms of editing, the stop action is really abrupt and you'd do better to have the text come up while there is b-roll in the background

    Also your frog kick is rather inefficient. You are pushing from your feet before you turn your ankles and pushing too fast which causes the fins to bend backwards. You can see at 7:40 that they are actually bending in the wrong direction when you kick which is making you work about 3x as hard as you have to. Focus on kicking more from the ankles.
    Overall good promo video for the system, just think it could use some tweaks. Keep at it!
     
  3. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    12,103
    10,061
    What happens to the orientation of those cylinders once the pressure starts dropping? The lower mounting clip seems very high.
     
  4. Hartattack

    Hartattack Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Champaign, IL
    330
    239
    Hi Roman,

    While this looks cool, it seems like many unnecessary tasks being loaded in calm/warm water for a new diver. I couldn't imagine what it would be like for someone to control all of those moving parts in a cold or heavy current environment.

    As a disciple of DIR, I am going to recommend you check out a Fundamentals (or similar) course with GUE, UTD, or ISE. You might find that beneficial in your quest to be a better diver and photographer. In my opinion—I do not see the value here and believe this is not the correct tool for the job, especially for a new diver or on a boat.


    Cheers.
     
  5. roman50

    roman50 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Prague
    28
    17
    In my experience once I got below 120ish on left (main) cylinder I noticed quite a bit of disbalance. So I would recommend micro switching every 40psi max. for perfect trim. The position of cylinders stays the same as they are on bungies. No need to reclip or anything.

    I will address others later, please keep responding. No, I am not vested in the system commercially. So no promo. My main driver for SM was my documentary work of cichlids in lake Malawi where there is a zero tolerance for equipment failure as we film and dive alone 100% of time. So take it as a life preservation thing and perfect fit as I could take ANY cylinder and use it as main. In middle of Africa. Courtesy of Toddy system.
     
  6. roman50

    roman50 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Prague
    28
    17
    I totally agree there. This setup might prove cumbersome in case of Zodiac entry on heavy seas on Galapagos islands. For that it's actually beneficial that Toddy design allows for an easy conversion to a back mounted single cylinder setup. Just one small extra aluminium plate to carry on the trip.

    This is all about life preservation and not skills improvement. I think I am a good photographer allright :) A diver newbie for sure though :) This was my 7th or 8th dive with Toddy so it was still quite messy. But with each dive I could see more and more clearly the benefits of this system and combination and I can tell you - when I am 40m underwater in middle of Africa all alone - it got me thinking. Spare Air wouldn't really cover an emergency as there is no support on the surface. Nearest chamber? Cape Town I guess. So the redundancy and the control of life support is all we have. And choosing the dive sites without hippos and crocs :)
     
    Cdncoldwater likes this.
  7. Joris Vd

    Joris Vd Contributor

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Belgium
    216
    177
    I have two little necklaces on top of the tank (between tank neck and valve. I just attach a double ender to the tank one side, to my d-ring other side, and inflate my bc and just put all the hoses correctly in the water. This works in so many encounters. Here in this video below you can see what I'm trying to say. (the first example). You can do this sitting down soooo easily, and standing works as well, but it's a bit of a pain cause you have to crouch over.



    And switching every 40 PSI. Jeezlouise, I'd be switching permanently. I switch about every 30-40 bar not psi, just because I see no need for the permanent back and forthing.

    If one tank goes a bit 'ass up' for a minute, the only people it will bother, will be the fanatics :) . And i'll readjust anyway as soon as I hit my mark.
     
    Pkishino, DiveClimbRide and Thrutch like this.
  8. tursiops

    tursiops Marine Scientist and Master Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: U.S. East Coast
    12,103
    10,061
    My original question, asked because the lower end of those aluminum tanks gets very floaty when at a half-pressure cylinder or less.
    I'm sure you mean 40 bar, not psi.
    I really do not understand. Both your tank mounting points are in the upper half of the tank. What happens when the bottom of the tank tanks buoyant?
    It is not fanatical to ask for sidemount tanks to be horizontal while diving. Perhaps the OP should show a picture from late in the dive, instead of at the beginning.
     
  9. roman50

    roman50 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Prague
    28
    17
    Man-o-man you must have the day today :). When I asked for not being to hard on me I meant it in positive direction! Not negative!

    Okay. First. Too many SPGs on hoses? Are you kidding me? On a safari boat with 4 dives per day? How on earth would you like to check on the cylinder refills before every dive? Mount and dismount? LOL Plus electronics can fail. I never rely completely on electronics. So imagine the transmitter loosing signal with the computer or failing completely... How would you check on the air available underwater?

    But to prove your point I want to say that I experienced faulty HP hose on one of those. It didn't burst, it was just bubbling without meaningful pressure loss but it was there. But hey, any HP hose could fail and that's why we appreciate the redundancy design of a SM. Am I right?

    On the other side the rigid transmitter mount would be utter nonsense. For one it would give you quite a massage and second any hard sticking point calls for break during manipulation. Above and underwater. Like when you hand over the cylinder in confined spaces. Or when stoving the cylinder on a Zodiak.

    Second. You need to understand Toddy design. No necklace as none desired. Not even for transport and later in-water dismount. I've tried to convert Toddy this way only to realise it's a complete stupidity.

    Third. Water entry. Remember the Use Case - a Photographer with Full rig on a Safari Boat with Zodiak entry. So you need to visualise a Zodiak with 6-8 people. Then you figure 2 hands are not nearly enough. Have you tried a zodiak entry with SM? Even not so bumpy ride will make your torso quit before the dive if you carry two cylinders neck mounted....

    Fourth. Backmount with SMsingle. No. HORRIBLE trim but then I guess you don't take videos underwater. So you don't know. But that's ok. I know nothing about cave diving. So I don't comment on it

    Fifth. YES! When I saw myself I remembered my wife saying I need practising yoga. TOO inflexible! I've shown your comment to my wife and she cheered on it! Now you've made my life hell . Cheers and thanks for comments!
     
    Pkishino likes this.
  10. roman50

    roman50 Registered

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Prague
    28
    17
    Yes, I am sorry, 40bars of course. Each cylinder has 2 mounting points - upper bungee under armpit and middle of the tank through bungee-connected bolt snap. That's why the position stays the same and you need to deal only with the buoyancy difference. Look at the mounting part of video closely to understand the mount point.
     

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