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I'm an el cheapo--I use Picasa(maybe 3? now), which is free btw and PS element 5.0 for about 3 years now, total cost was ??50 bucks...usually do a pic in Picasa then 'finish' it up in Elements..

btw, I love shooting the backscatter away, lol...
 
I shoot with a Canon and I use the free Canon software. It does plenty all on it's own so why would I spend money on something like Photoshop when I could buy more camera gear and take better pictures to begin with.
 
I am curious about all the recommendations for Lightroom. I use Photoshop Elements and find that it meets all of my needs. What is the difference between Lightroom and Photoshop Elements. What are the advantages of using Lightroom over Photoshop Elements?

Regards,

Bill
There are a couple of advantages and some disadvantages too. The main advantage of lightroom is that it is both a database (you don't need bridge or some other database) and it is fully non-destructive. More importantly you can do things from a photographer's standpoint rather than from a graphic designer's standpoint. You get single button white balance adjustment for example and you get single button tone/color/saturation control as well. The disadvantage is that there are no layers involved so cutting a subject out and fixing lots of backscatter for example is not easily done. If elements meets all your needs no need to change (obviously) but for many of us the simplicity of lightroom means typically a lot less time working on photos. I use CS4 and Lightroom both, but for the great majority of my pictures, Lightroom is all I use and typically I spend less than 40 seconds on each pic. If I have to do something in layers (like adding text or a title) then I open CS4 and open the book as well since I don't use it enough to remember how to do complicated things.
Try it out, maybe you will like it, you can play for free for 30 days or until the LR3 beta 2 expires (sometime in late May I expect)

Bill
 
Thanks for all the input. I've been using the free version of lightroom since I learned of it on this post. So far I really like it! Other than layers, are there any other benefits of CS4 or CS5? Also, just want to confirm that Elements does not have the amount of features to edit the pics with? I don't really care about the cataloging feature since I put my pics into different folders anyway. And when you say that LR is non-destrucitve, I take it you mean that as you save any changes to the orginal picture the jpeg file doesn't erode?

I spoke with Joe Liburdi who thinks Elements would be a sufficient program to use. Anybody know if there is a free trial for that program out there?
 
You can and should download the elements, lightroom and CS5 trial versions. Play with them, then make your choice. IMHO Lightroom is far better for photographers than Elements; it lets you do things the way that most photographers (as opposed to graphic designers) work.
Bill
 
Thanks for all the input. I've been using the free version of lightroom since I learned of it on this post. So far I really like it! Other than layers, are there any other benefits of CS4 or CS5? Also, just want to confirm that Elements does not have the amount of features to edit the pics with? I don't really care about the cataloging feature since I put my pics into different folders anyway. And when you say that LR is non-destrucitve, I take it you mean that as you save any changes to the orginal picture the jpeg file doesn't erode?

I spoke with Joe Liburdi who thinks Elements would be a sufficient program to use. Anybody know if there is a free trial for that program out there?

You can and should download the elements, lightroom and CS5 trial versions. Play with them, then make your choice. IMHO Lightroom is far better for photographers than Elements; it lets you do things the way that most photographers (as opposed to graphic designers) work.
Bill

I will just speak towards the underlined portions above;

"Also, just want to confirm that Elements does not have the amount of features to edit the pics with?"

PS Elements is a stripped down version of full PhotoShop, without the majority of graphic designer tools, intended for users who only need to adjust photos. Your Q seems to be missing the few words, like "compared to LR and/or full PS," needed to make it a proper question/sentence. If we assume the few words in my previous sentence are supposed to be in your Q, with regards to earlier Elements, "curves" and "actions" are a couple functions that were not available, compared to full PS, but are on newer versions of Elements, IIRC. Layers seems to be available with my Elements 4.

"And when you say that LR is non-destrucitve, I take it you mean that as you save any changes to the orginal picture the jpeg file doesn't erode?"

Again, your wording is somewhat confusing to me, but then again my original files are not .jpg. I have always wondered about this claim. I shoot underwater photos in .orf (Olympus Raw File). I now use Adobe Raw to download and convert my day's photo's to .dnf (Digital Negative File), into a folder I name with the day's date. After making adjustments with Elements, the adjusted file is saved as .psd, .tif or .jpg; I chose which one(s). Before Adobe Raw, the original .orf's were/are downloaded/stored in a similarly named/cataloged folder. I have been using mostly Elements since ~'02 and I still have all my original .orf's or .dng's in exactly the same condition as when they came off the camera/card.

"I spoke with Joe Liburdi who thinks Elements would be a sufficient program to use."

Joe has been a prominent underwater photographer for decades and it he thinks Elements "would be a sufficient program" that is significant, IMHO.

"IMHO Lightroom is far better for photographers than Elements; it lets you do things the way that most photographers (as opposed to graphic designers) work."

I guess I am confused by the term "most photographers." Did "most photographers" before the popularity of PC's and the original full PhotoShop make their own corrections, in a dark room, or did "most photographers" have a professional photo lab make their corrections? After PC's and the original PS, did "most photographers" start making their corrections with full PS, after scanning their images into their PC's? After Elements was released, did "most photographers" make their corrections with the new stripped down made for photographers version of PS or the full PS?

If "most photographers" started making their own corrections since the advent of digital camera (slide & film scanners were not easy/inexpensive to use hardware until recently), then haven't "most photographers" been making their adjustments with some version of PS?
 
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Thanks for all the input. I've been using the free version of lightroom since I learned of it on this post. So far I really like it! Other than layers, are there any other benefits of CS4 or CS5? Also, just want to confirm that Elements does not have the amount of features to edit the pics with? I don't really care about the cataloging feature since I put my pics into different folders anyway. And when you say that LR is non-destrucitve, I take it you mean that as you save any changes to the orginal picture the jpeg file doesn't erode?

I spoke with Joe Liburdi who thinks Elements would be a sufficient program to use. Anybody know if there is a free trial for that program out there?
Re not caring about the cataloging feature...It is so much simpler managing files/folders/image collections in Lightroom than using Windows Explorer or Picasa or any other program I have seen, that I completely dumped my own method for filing images and re-created a much more elaborate, but simpler to implement and manage, method in Lightroom.

Re Lightroom being non-destructive.... Lightroom never does anything to the original image. Every editing change or change in metadata concerning the image is stored in a database file and associated with the original image. After making "edits" you are looking at the updated computer screen version of the original file with the list of "edits" you made imposed on the screen version of the original file. As indicated, that list of "edits" is in the database; the database contains a pointer to the original image, but no changes are ever applied to the original image. No version of the edited image ever goes onto the computer disk unless you elect to export the edited image as a new file to be saved in a format of your choosing. I shoot with a small Canon a570is directly into DNG format using the CHDK hack. These files remain untouched on my hard drive no matter how much they appear to have been edited by Lightroom.
 
halemanō;5215144:
I will just speak towards the underlined portions above;

"Also, just want to confirm that Elements does not have the amount of features to edit the pics with?"

PS Elements is a stripped down version of full PhotoShop, without the majority of graphic designer tools, intended for users who only need to adjust photos. You Q seems to be missing the few words, like "compared to LR and/or full PS," needed to make it a proper question/sentence. If we assume the few words in my previous sentence are supposed to be in your Q, with regards to earlier Elements, "curves" and "actions" are a couple functions that were not available, compared to full PS, but are on newer versions of Elements, IIRC. Layers seems to be available with my Elements 4.

"And when you say that LR is non-destrucitve, I take it you mean that as you save any changes to the orginal picture the jpeg file doesn't erode?"

Again, your wording is somewhat confusing to me, but then again my original files are not .jpg. I have always wondered about this claim. I shoot underwater photos in .orf (Olympus Raw File). I now use Adobe Raw to download and convert my day's photo's to .dnf (Digital Negative File), into a folder I name with the day's date. After making adjustments with Elements, the adjusted file is saved as .psd, .tif or .jpg; I chose which one(s). Before Adobe Raw, the original .orf's were/are downloaded/stored in a similarly named/cataloged folder. I have been using mostly Elements since ~'02 and I still have all my original .orf's or .dng's in exactly the same condition as when they came off the camera/card.

"I spoke with Joe Liburdi who thinks Elements would be a sufficient program to use."

Joe has been a prominent underwater photographer for decades and it he thinks Elements "would be a sufficient program" that is significant, IMHO.
QUOTE]

Yes, I was comparing to other programs as you mentioned. Again, sorry to create so much confusion, but it seems as if you understood what I was asking and answered the question appropriately. Joe is the man from what I have been told. Lucky for me he is only a few miles away. While speaking with Joe, it seemed he prefers programs geared towards photographers vs. graphic designers. The programs as described to me that are more graphic design type seem fun, but way too many features I probably won't use; not to mention the costs.

Re not caring about the cataloging feature...It is so much simpler managing files/folders/image collections in Lightroom than using Windows Explorer or Picasa or any other program I have seen, that I completely dumped my own method for filing images and re-created a much more elaborate, but simpler to implement and manage, method in Lightroom.

Re Lightroom being non-destructive.... Lightroom never does anything to the original image. Every editing change or change in metadata concerning the image is stored in a database file and associated with the original image. After making "edits" you are looking at the updated computer screen version of the original file with the list of "edits" you made imposed on the screen version of the original file. As indicated, that list of "edits" is in the database; the database contains a pointer to the original image, but no changes are ever applied to the original image. No version of the edited image ever goes onto the computer disk unless you elect to export the edited image as a new file to be saved in a format of your choosing. I shoot with a small Canon a570is directly into DNG format using the CHDK hack. These files remain untouched on my hard drive no matter how much they appear to have been edited by Lightroom.

That's what I was figuring when I was playing with LR. This answers my question about eroding the original file. Seems I may have not used proper terminology in my questions, but you were able to figure out what I was referring to. Thanks
 
So much for my failed attempt to multi-quote....Imorin, how do you catalog your photos? I was thinking I would just create windows folders in "My Pictures" like I have done. I'm all ears to a better, more efficient way....What benefit are there to cataloging them differently also interests me.
 
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