Suggestion Splitting the BCD Forum

[Jarrett]

The BCD section has become consumed with discussion about BP/W's. It is to the point that you can't get advice on non BP/W questions there anymore. Any request for information about non-BP/W BCDs is met with 10 responses of "you should get a BP/W."

Most of the non-BP/W users have quit posting in that forum due to the beating that they take when they mention anything but a BP/W. While the BP/W may be a great option for some, the majority of divers out there are not in BP/W setups and still need advice there as well.

My suggestion is to split this forum.

How about subsections like:

Traditional BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Backplates & Wings

That way posters interested in each could inquire and receive non combative discussions on each type of platform. I believe this would also bring more traditional BCD owners back to the forum for discussions who may otherwise be reluctant to post these days due to the current bias.

 

[MSilvia]

Technical Diving Specialties
Sub-Forums: DIR, Wreck Diving, Cave Diving, Public Safety Divers, Hogarthian Diving, Solo Divers, Tek Trip Reports, Divers with Disabilities

These subforums each make an appropriate distinction about topics that require differentiation in order to make posting or searching for info easier. It would be confusing to have a sweeping "tech" forum that lumped cave diving, PSD, solo, and wreck diving together in the same forum, as it would be inappropriate to ask a question about tech diving without being more specific about what kind of diving you're interested in. Seperating them helps to clarify the discussions.

Accessories
Sub-Forums: Gear Bags & Cases, Knives & Cutting Tools, Lift Bags & SMB's, Lights
If I was looking for a new gadget but wasn't sure what to get, I would look in each of these sub forums to get the information I wanted. Based on what I read, I would get the gadget that best suited me.

Divers rarely wonder about accessories in general, and are much more likely to ask about gear that addresses a specific need. "What light is good for X?", "How do I deploy a SMB?", and "Is there any real benefit to titanium knives?" are all questions about very different topics, and it's convenient for someone looking for info about gear bags to be able to go straight to that forum without having to read about knives. Again, in this case seperation helps to add clarity.

In the other cases above sub forums have worked very well. Why would it be any different in this situation?

It would be different because, unlike the examples you cited, it isn't at all uncommon for someone to ask a question about BCs in general. If I wanted to ask, "What's a good BC to use if I don't like chest straps?" or "Is it a problem if an inflator doesn't have a pull dump?", then having to choose between the Jacket and BP/W forums doesn't make any sense. Both of the subcategories you propose would be equally appropriate, and so any questions pertaining equally to both would be more difficult to locate. Since it is still as reasonable to have a post in the BC forum specifically addressing BP/W BCs as it is to have a post in there asking about the SeaQuest Diva, there isn't a clear advantage to separation. You're drawing a distinction that confuses rather than clarifies.

Having "BC" subforums is not like having "accessory" subforums, it's like having "knife and cutting instrument" subforums. If I'm interested in knives in general, I don't want to have to choose between "pointy tip knife" and the "blunt tip knife" subforums.

 

[Jarrett]

If I wanted to ask, "What's a good BC to use if I don't like chest straps?" or "How do I adjust my BC's weighting so that my trim is better?",

Just as generic questions can be posed in the parent forums of Technical Diving Specialties and Accessories if needed, the questions you posed would belong in the Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) & Weight Systems parent forum. That's why the main forum is retained, so that generic questions can be posed there.

 

[MSilvia]

Just as generic questions can be posed in the parent forums of Technical Diving Specialties and Accessories if needed, the questions you posed would belong in the Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) & Weight Systems parent forum. That's why the main forum is retained, so that generic questions can be posed there.

And if someone asks in the parent forum, "What's a good BC?" and 20 people respond, "Have you considered a BP/W?" how does that solve the problem you're trying to address? It seems to me that it just creates two new forums that are basicly unnecessary. The only threads that would be appropriate there are the ones it's already easy to sift through... I don't see that there are so many "I only want to talk about jackets" and "I only want to talk about BP/W" threads that they're cluttering up the "generic" BC forum. As far as I can tell, eliminating that mostly non-problematic "clutter" is all the extra forums would do. The proposed solution doesn't really address the stated problem... it addresses an unrelated non-problem.

 

[mase]

In every discussion, even those outside Scuba Board, it's hard to stay on subject. People have a habit of interjecting whatever they're thinking about, even if it has only a small connection to the original topic. Fortunately, on the Board you can choose not to read a particular reply or in the alternative, you can request to keep the replies responsive to your original post. With regards to a thread on BC's only that has recived responses concerning BP/W,it is very easy to say"Please no more information on BP/W." I believe most people would honor that request.
We don't need more rules, we need more self reliance.

 

[MSilvia]

I'm interested in "the beating" from the BP/W crowd that's scaring the admittedly vast numbers of jacket and back inflate BC users away from the forum. If it's really a problem, it should still be addressed, even if through some means other than new forums.

I'm a fan of self policing as mase suggested, but as an admittedly enthusiastic BP/W user and somewhat active board member I'm not sure what it is I ought to do differently if my posting about BP/W is a problem. If someone requests info about a specific BC I feel knowledgable about, I'll answer them as well as I'm able and inclined to. If they ask an open ended question and my experience and enthusiasm lead me to think suggesting they try a BP/W might be helpful, I will, just as I would recommend anything else I'm happy with if asked. If I think providing more information about one would be a positive contribution to a thread, I'll do that. I hope that doesn't mean I'm beating on anyone, as that isn't my intent.

If, on the other hand, the beating in question refers to unwarranted personal attacks against jacket BC advocates, I haven't noticed that going on, and hope I haven't contributed to it.

 

[Jarrett]

Instead of being drawn into spinoff arguments, I figured I would post one last time stating my case and offering a solution to the problem instead of just complaining about it or denying it exists:

The BCD section has become consumed with discussion about BP/W's. It is to the point that you can't get advice on non BP/W questions there anymore. Any request for information about non-BP/W BCDs is met with 10 responses of "you should get a BP/W."

Most of the non-BP/W users have quit posting in that forum due to the beating that they take when they mention anything but a BP/W. While the BP/W may be a great option for some, the majority of divers out there are not in BP/W setups and still need advice there as well.

The longer it stays as a single forum, the less discussion you will see on non-BP/Ws. The trend is already apparent. Newbies don't want to contradict the vocal minority of BP/W supporters as they appear to be the most experienced on paper. What it will continue to become is the DIR/Tech BCD forum where those not espousing that point of view will become more and more silent. Doing nothing will only strengthen this trend and will ultimately result in less people reading the board as a whole.

My suggestion is to split this forum. Retain the general BCD forum and create specialized subsections like:

Traditional BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Backplates & Wings

That way posters interested in each could inquire and receive non combative discussions on each type of platform. I believe this would also bring more traditional BCD owners back to the forum for discussions who may otherwise be reluctant to post these days due to the current bias.

 

[Rainer]

I'm interested in "the beating" from the BP/W crowd that's scaring the admittedly vast numbers of jacket and back inflate BC users away from the forum. If it's really a problem, it should still be addressed, even if through some means other than new forums.

I'm a fan of self policing as mase suggested, but as an admittedly enthusiastic BP/W user and somewhat active board member I'm not sure what it is I ought to do differently if my posting about BP/W is a problem. If someone requests info about a specific BC I feel knowledgable about, I'll answer them as well as I'm able and inclined to. If they ask an open ended question and my experience and enthusiasm lead me to think suggesting they try a BP/W might be helpful, I will, just as I would recommend anything else I'm happy with if asked. If I think providing more information about one would be a positive contribution to a thread, I'll do that. I hope that doesn't mean I'm beating on anyone, as that isn't my intent.

If, on the other hand, the beating in question refers to unwarranted personal attacks against jacket BC advocates, I haven't noticed that going on, and hope I haven't contributed to it.

As usual, Matt offers sound advice. I see no reason for subforums for the very reasons he considers.

 

[MSilvia]

Instead of being drawn into spinoff arguments, I figured I would post one last time stating my case and offering a solution to the problem instead of just complaining about it or denying it exists:

I don't see it as a spinoff argument. I'm just trying to clarify what the problem is.

If it's just that lots of people on the board enthusiasticly and repeatedly recommend BP/W configurations as a way to overcome what they see as shortcomings of other BC systems, and that those who advocate using those systems are unable or disinclined to highlight their virtues in the face of that support, I don't think that's indicitive of a problem with the board.

 

[*Floater*]

How about this: If possible, add a check box under the title when posting a new thread in the BCD section. The check box says "I don't want to hear about backplates and wings, please" or something similar. If the OP checks the box, then that warning is displayed in red letters somewhere near the title of the thread and mods will do their best to remove any bp/w suggestions from it. If the check box is not selected, then the thread will appear as usual. Not sure if that's do-able from a programming standpoint, but it would solve the problem of people being given unwelcome backplate and wing advice.

 

[MSilvia]

Not sure if that's do-able from a programming standpoint, but it would solve the problem of people being given unwelcome backplate and wing advice.

It's probably doable, but I'm not sure I see why it's better than someone just making the request in their post.

I strongly suspect that adding the button would lead new folks to ask "What is a BP/W, and why would I not want to hear about one?", which of course would only encourage additional posts about BP/W, why those who use them think they're better, and why talking about them so threatened those who don't use them that they requested the board be modified in order to protect the membership from having to keep seeing posts about how superior their proponents believe their gear is.

I may be wrong, but wouldn't that exacerbate "the problem"?