Suggestion Splitting the BCD Forum

[Jarrett]

The BCD section has become consumed with discussion about BP/W's. It is to the point that you can't get advice on non BP/W questions there anymore. Any request for information about non-BP/W BCDs is met with 10 responses of "you should get a BP/W."

Most of the non-BP/W users have quit posting in that forum due to the beating that they take when they mention anything but a BP/W. While the BP/W may be a great option for some, the majority of divers out there are not in BP/W setups and still need advice there as well.

My suggestion is to split this forum.

How about subsections like:

Traditional BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Backplates & Wings

That way posters interested in each could inquire and receive non combative discussions on each type of platform. I believe this would also bring more traditional BCD owners back to the forum for discussions who may otherwise be reluctant to post these days due to the current bias.

 

[H2Andy]

hey H2Andy lets go to Calif dude, I can teach you how to surf

hey, i'll have you know that there are some of us East Coast Florida surfers...

when the wind is right off the NE, we get waves up to ... maybe... 3 feet?




you know how hard it is to time a 3-foot wave??!?!!???



but most of the time we party when we get two-footers

 

[RonFrank]

I didn't read it as concrete as you. Do you really think that Scuba Do thought his head would explode?

Actually his head did explode. Very sad indeed! :11: We are having memorial services once we find his head. :14:

I'm type A. I tend to be vocal, and voice my opinion. I have been told a LOT that my personality CAN push things in directions that the majority may not agree with. I should have been a CEO. This in a work environment where I *hold back*.

So in my advanced years, I've learned the power of people who don't worry about what others think to a big degree! Hey, we are likely more alike then different.... BUT, I do see value on the net in letting a subject run a course without getting involved.

 

[Jasonmh]

Hijacking threads.

As was pointed out, there is already a system to deal with that

This might come as a surprise, but the Diving world rarely uses the BP& Wing. I would even suggest that our seeming preoccupation with the BP&Wings is way out of step with how the world dives. To that end, I am sure that we have SQUASHED a lot of discussion due to our addiction to the BP&Wings. .

I'll assume the sarcasm is rhetorical. If you take a look at the BC section right now, in the first 3 pages (45 posts) I see about 20 where the OP specifically is asking about BP&Ws in the subject of the post alone. If you read each one there may be even more that ask about BP&W as an option in the body of their post. Most of these are from first time BP users or people who don't own one yet asking questions. This would seem to me that there is a big interest, and not just the same vocal 5 people.
I also disagree with some of the stronger langage in this thread about people "trashing" BCs, and "squashing" discussion. There are also plenty of threads where the OP asks about BC X, and the replies are BC A,B, and C are better. Are these trashing the idea of the OP, and squashing discussion? It seems that many of these could also be considered a hijack.

What's going to happen? We aren't sure yet. We are still discussing it. I thought the link that Ron pointed out is telling. I agree with him that the poster DID NOT want to discuss the BP&Wing and yet the very first response is just that. Amazing.

Really? Amazing?

 

[*Floater*]

He did not say that in the OP on this thread.

I'm not for splitting the forum, but if you think that the constant BP/W suggestions on just about EVERY post on the BC forum, not to mention that the forum has basically become a discussion of BP/W's is a little strange. You may want to take a step back and consider WHY when the majority of divers do NOT dive this configuration.

Most people use what their instructors use (in front of them) or what their shop sells. For various reasons that's mostly non-bp/w BCD's right now. I don't see why SB community should push that same standard unless there's a convincing reason for it (and I have not seen such a reason). Furthermore, I think bp/w rigs are becoming more prevalent among rec divers. It may just be that SB is ahead the curve.

 

[Mafiaman]

Furthermore, I think bp/w rigs are becoming more prevalent among rec divers. It may just be that SB is ahead the curve.

What observations or data do you base this statement on? (outside of your dive buddy's/group) I believe it to be overwhelmingly inaccurate.
In the upper Florida Keys the Scuba capital of the U.S.A. I've observed a sea of divers and only two wings. Unless I'm mistaken, two is not prevalent.
I was in the keys every weekend that there was not a storm warning this last summer and part of the fall. (Fri. Sat. and Sun. for 20 weeks) That's what I base my observations on.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Well thats the wonder of Florida, besides the keys being located in Florida your also talking about one of the capitals of cave diving.

 

[Mafiaman]

Well thats the wonder of Florida, besides the keys being located in Florida your also talking about one of the capitals of cave diving.

Yes, and I concede the point you elude to. Having dove Gennie spring, Blue Grotto, and did my Rescue check out dives at The Devils Den (The green slim pit/zero vis). I did see a few more BP/w users there. But I bet if you stood at the cash register of all three you'd be lucky if 5% of the divers coming thru are BP/W users. But it could be argued they are tourists.

 

[*Floater*]

What observations or data do you base this statement on? (outside of your dive buddy's/group) I believe it to be overwhelmingly inaccurate.
In the upper Florida Keys the Scuba capital of the U.S.A. I've observed a sea of divers and only two wings. Unless I'm mistaken, two is not prevalent.
I was in the keys every weekend that there was not a storm warning this last summer and part of the fall. (Fri. Sat. and Sun. for 20 weeks) That's what I base my observations on.

I'm just speculating of course based on several observations:

1. BP/W rigs seem very popular on the internet, and you'd expect that to slowly impact what goes on in the real world, especially as more and more people start seeking advice and buying gear online. (I assume that's another trend and not just with scuba gear).

2. I've seen sport divers use them in the Philippines and Egypt, and in Mexico I saw some transpacs on the rec boat, and people were also interested in my rig.

3. I think tech (and maybe cave) diving are becoming more popular, and that can only grow now that PADI, SSI and maybe other traditionally rec agencies are getting into it, and they'll push bp/w rigs for those courses, and possibly even earlier so that their current rec students would be more ready to take their tech courses in the future.

4. Maybe it's my imagination but it seems like more companies are getting into the bp/w market, creating more designs and making them more user-friendly, so I assume there's more demand for them. At least I was under the impression that Dive-Rite and OMS were pretty much the only bp/w game in town until Halcyon got into it and now there's a ton of smaller companies popping up or getting into bp/w's; DSS, Oxycheq, Agir, DUX, Hammerhead, Deep Outdoors, Golem... and the internet is making backplate and wings more accessible to non-tech divers.

So that's what I see, though I admit I'm biased since I believe that bp/w is essentially a superior product to a "regular" back-inflate bcd and therefore I'd assume it'll gain market share on the merits alone.

 

[MSilvia]

What observations or data do you base this statement on? (outside of your dive buddy's/group) I believe it to be overwhelmingly inaccurate.
In the upper Florida Keys the Scuba capital of the U.S.A. I've observed a sea of divers and only two wings. Unless I'm mistaken, two is not prevalent.

All of the LDSs I've been to in the Northeast lately have a stock of various BP/W configurations, and I haven't been out on a local recreational charter lately that didn't have at least one person (aside from my buddies and I, who almost all use them) who was wearing one. I was out on a sold-out scalloping charter last year where everyone on the boat had one except for one guy in a back-inflate.

Maybe you're not seeing it because you're not looking in places where they've caught on strongly.

My belief is that BP/W discussion is prevalent here because the divers who are enhusiastic enough about the sport to regularly visit an internet forum about it are also much more likely than the casual vacation diver (who make up the vast majority of those certified) to dive regularly, take an interest in optimizing their gear, work on honing their skills, etc. In other words, the divers who post here are not a representative sample of divers in general... we tend to be much more passionate about our diving than the majority who get OW certified, buy whatever gear their instructor sells, and maybe make a dive or two a year if they're lucky.

In the same way that I'm a casual skier who doesn't much care what skis I strap on my feet so long as I'm content they do the job, and don't use up all my diving money, I suspect most divers are happy they have a BC at all, and are not particularly interested in tweaking it to perfection, finding out about alternatives, or logging on to scubaboard to talk about it. They just want to see a few fish before they start in on the next round of resort coctails.

That members of a community of dedicated and passionate divers are more likely to use and discuss what they believe are "better" methods and gear choices than what most divers use isn't even remotely suprising to me. Most divers use the most popular gear, but active SB members are not most divers.

 

[Mafiaman]

Just guessing on the numbers, But on good weather season days I'd bet 500 divers hit the water in the upper keys on all of the boats (no I don't see them all) 95% are from out of the area (most locals know people with boats so they don't use commercial boats) based on people I've spoken with I'd bet 75% are from north of the Mason Dixon. So my sample pool is very diversified and a full spectrum of divers. 99.9% wonderfully great people.
I would say that your sample groups are much smaller and more focused on a particular type of dive you are doing (birds of a feather). The people who come to Florida bring the gear they own from what ever region they live in.

Matt/Float, I agree your more likely to meet BP/w divers on line as they are a more tech savvy group