SSI Class - Failed

[Gudu]

Irrelevant --- Unless there was a understanding for Students to purchase Gear from the Shop/Instructor.

So how much did you pay for the class?
How many days was it?

I realize it was the shop/instructor that set up the groupon, thus he deserves what he gets, but did the guy even make minimum wage from you'all?
Seems you pretty much got what you paid for, maybe ask the online merchants where you bought the gear what their classses run...

 

[skearse]

I'm not sure I'm buying into the comparison between college and SCUBA instruction, at least not 100%. For me, SCUBA instruction (expectations and 'contractual' agreements) are more along the lines of my grad school experience rather than undergrad. During undergrad, the student/prof relationship was very hit or miss, particularly in 'weed out' classes-during the third day of my first Chem E class, Material and Energy Balances, the prof looked at a fellow student and told her 'If you don't know the answer to that by now, I hear Burger King is hiring.' Kind of set the tone for the class. A year or so later I was in a Heat Transfer class (first day) [and yeah, we engineers take ALL the fun classes] and after an hour with the prof I was LOST, and not looking forward to that class at all. As it happened, one of my fraternity brothers was in the same class in the same room immediately after me, with a different prof, so I decided to stick around and see if she was any better. 500% change. I couldn't get my transfer form completed fast enough. Ended up loving the class, got an A, and to this day still use those principles in my everyday work and most importantly, I understand them.

In grad school, there tended to be more of an easy-going, work as a team type atmosphere to make sure that everyone finished the program. Not by relaxing standards, but by both profs and students putting forth the energy to make sure everyone 'got it' and truly passed the class. Now, maybe there are instructors out there that see OW more as an undergrad atmosphere rather than grad level work, but I'm not sure that should necessarily be the case.

In any case, I think the biggest parallel between the academic setting and the SCUBA setting, particularly in my experience, is that the instructor makes all the difference in the world, and I think that the GroupOn/LS setup probably does those who are truly interested in making SUCBA a long term hobby a disservice-not trying to bash the OP, but I agree that, by and large, the people that signed up using the GO/LS program are, in general, trying to tick a box on a bucket list to be able to they they've been SCUBA diving. Like the majority of the posts in the 'Which agency' thread, the instructor makes or breaks the experience-and, unfortunately, in this case, it seems like it broke it.

---------- Post added ----------

Just re-read that, and man, I'm wordy this morning. Sorry about that guys...anyway, the other thing that kind of differentiates SCUBA from academics is the lack of a practical exam in school (trade schools excluded, of course). As the OP noted, they all passed the academic portion; it was the practical assessment they all (allegedly) failed.

 

[boulderjohn]

steve how can you say this, no one pays to be certified , they pay to receive training, certification is based on STUDENT learning and learning is the responsibility of the STUDENT. though there is (gut feeling) clearly a problem with the instructor/instructon because the symptom is the whole class, it is moot to the premis that they are owed a certification because they payed.

In a standards based system, which is what we are supposed to have here, the student purchases a certification course, meaning that the course continues until the student is certified. Some places will charge extra for extra sessions, but that is not all that common in my experience. Normally if a student needs extra help to meet the standards, that extra help is included in the price of the course. Shops are able to do that because it is not all that common for students to need that much extra help. Their experience tells them that it will be unusual for students to need more time than they have traditionally scheduled the classes. They therefore absorb that extra cost--rare as it is--on the theory that the grateful customer is more likely to be a long term customer. If extraordinary extra sessions are to incur a cost, that should be spelled out ahead of time.

In this case, the students were given what in my experience was more than ample time to complete the skills of the course, so it would have to have been an unusual student that needed more time. All students went through the entire CW portion of the class. Since you are not supposed to be able to make it to the end in a standards based class without completing all skills satisfactorily, that should mean that all skills were met by all students. Then all students, not that rare troubled student, were told they failed and would have to pay for additional classes, a requirement that was apparently not spelled out ahead of time.

Some people have compared this to tech diving and said that is different. That has not been my experience. In my original tech diving classes, students paid a set fee for the course and kept working on it until they met standards. When I took cave diving, I had to complete another full day of diving beyond the schedule to complete the full cave course because I messed up an exit in a high flow cave on the supposed last day. The instructor did not charge a dime more--and he was even supplying my gas as a part of the course fee. When I completed my tech instructor certification, it was the same thing. I needed another day, and it didn't cost me a dime more, even though my boat fees and gas were part of the class fee.

 

[redacted]

In my opinion shopping around for the cheapest "deal" on scuba instruction and equipment is a bad way to go, you end up with crap like this.
Beyond all the marketing hype that scuba is for everyone it can be a dangerous activity that demands the best gear and instruction you can get. Many people love their ebay and internet deals, good for them. I don't gamble my wife's and my life on such b.s.
I stand by my statement, you got what you paid for; you paid little and got little in return.

So, do you think divers should be shopping around for the highest price in order to get the best/

This sounds like a rip-off LDS. Unfortunately those kind of shops exist.

In addition to other suggestions, I suggest you pursue a charge back through your credit card company but that may be a long shot.

 

[jstein86]

Random thought.

I was just thinking about the course, and his main selling point for buying a snorkel was a bit shady. He mentioned that you want to own your own snorkel as you dont know where it's been. Now that i think back to the course, what about the regulator? I doubt he cleaned them after every session. Also we did quite a bit of shared breathing as part of the pool session.

 

[DukeAMO]

Random thought.

I was just thinking about the course, and his main selling point for buying a snorkel was a bit shady. He mentioned that you want to own your own snorkel as you dont know where it's been. Now that i think back to the course, what about the regulator? I doubt he cleaned them after every session. Also we did quite a bit of shared breathing as part of the pool session.

Well... you do have a point on the snorkel.

As for the regulators, you were supposed to clean your own gear (including the regulator) at the end of every pool session, weren't you? That was part of our course. I mean, they didn't get sanitized, but we did rinse them out at least.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was just thinking about the course, and his main selling point for buying a snorkel was a bit shady. He mentioned that you want to own your own snorkel as you dont know where it's been. Now that i think back to the course, what about the regulator? I doubt he cleaned them after every session. Also we did quite a bit of shared breathing as part of the pool session.

Well... you do have a point on the snorkel.
As for the regulators, you were supposed to clean your own gear (including the regulator) at the end of every pool session, weren't you? That was part of our course. I mean, they didn't get sanitized, but we did rinse them out at least.

OK, I have been through the official SSI dive shop marketing course called Scuba University. This is a totally optional program that shops can choose to attend. It is taught by the SSI owner. It includes a whole lot of suggestions for scuba shops to help the bottom line. It would be interesting to see if any parts of that course were involved.

One of them is to talk about the sanitary issues with snorkels and regulators. In fact, it was suggested that students be required to purchase a regulator mouthpiece. The shop's rental gear will not have mouthpieces, and the students will have to affix their own mouthpieces each time. It doesn't sound as if the shop did all that, but it sounds like they were on that path.

Being upset about students buying gear online is also a part of the instruction. The class showed how to push the student to purchase from the shop instead. They were especially insistent on pressuring students to buy full gear setups before the end of the pool sessions and definitely before the OW sessions. Does any of that sound familiar?

How about the shop retail floor setup? Did it feature dummies set up in scuba gear, each with a different package price? Was the instructor wearing one of those packages?

 

[jstein86]

He didn't pressure us to buy the mouth piece or a scuba gear package. (there were no scuba gear packages setup in the store) But he did reiterate quite a few times about the sanitary issue with the snorkel. To be honest if he really wanted to make money he would have been better off to just rent out all the gear. (he had it all for the try scuba classes)

Maybe we as a collective group on the forum should start a company where we rent out gear for these scuba classes, and then when the class ends the student mails back the gear. I can help build the website

 

[boulderjohn]

He didn't pressure us to buy the mouth piece or a scuba gear package. (there were no scuba gear packages setup in the store) But he did reiterate quite a few times about the sanitary issue with the snorkel. To be honest if he really wanted to make money he would have been better off to just rent out all the gear. (he had it all for the try scuba classes)

OK, it doesn't sound like he took the course.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

He didn't pressure us to buy the mouth piece or a scuba gear package. (there were no scuba gear packages setup in the store) But he did reiterate quite a few times about the sanitary issue with the snorkel. To be honest if he really wanted to make money he would have been better off to just rent out all the gear. (he had it all for the try scuba classes)

Maybe we as a collective group on the forum should start a company where we rent out gear for these scuba classes, and then when the class ends the student mails back the gear. I can help build the website

How long has this guy been in business?