SSI Class - Failed

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to the sudents: If it sounds like too good of a deal.....

to the shop: SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Where it goes from here - anybody's guess.......
 
Either the OP is not telling us everything or the LDS is in violation. When was the last time an entire OW class failed (SSI), likely never? So the Groupon thing is a scam and this LDS needs to eat their loss, lick their wounds and get on with life. I would pay the $50 bucks but I would make arrangements so you can complete the work in a weekend. The Checkout dives need to be discussed or you may end up in the same situation. Better yet take the Checkout dives from someone else.
 
Searching for the cheapest deal can certainly get you ripped off at times. But, paying top dollar when there are EQUAL but less expensive options gets you ripped off every time you do it. I spend a LOT of time making sure I am getting the best deal I can while still getting the quality I want, and at 57 years of age I can look back and honestly say there have only been a few times I think I got ripped off. Over that period of time, I believe doing it my way has saved me a TON-O-MONEY!!!!

Sometimes things are cheaper not because they are inferior, or someone is looking to rip you off, but because they are simply extraneous items for the seller or the service provider is in a position where they can afford to do it for less. I know that I do private throws coaching for far far less than anyone else that does it. NOT because I am not a good coach, but because I am disabled retired, have some free time, and LOVE working with young people.

If I had seen a groupon/LS offer when I decided to get certified, I would have assumed that the provider was reputable or groupon/LS wouldnt be working with them. I may have looked for some reviews of the shop before buying but, if I couldnt find any way to check them out it wouldnt have stopped me.

Once they pulled this crap on my though, you can be sure I wouldnt just say "oh well" and let it go. I am not an instructor, dont even play one on TV and didnt spend the night at a Holiday Inn Express, but I am pretty confident is saying that no way in hell and entire class of 7 people can fail unless they were specifically recruited from a "home" of some kind. And even then it would be unusual for there to not be ONE that was ready to move on to open water.
 
Steve I believe you are right that the instructor took advantage of the class. I suspect that was done to make a political statement in regards to the way the seats were booked. How ever, being told that you can get certified for x$ comes along with the unspoken condition that the student learn and demonstrate what they have learned. Under that premis no college can be over booked because as long as you pay the tuition you graduate whether you show up or not. Being told the requirements of the course implies you accept having to meet them. For instance in this specific discussion you never told any of the posters of this threads TOS. Do the rules not apply or is it assumed that TOS discussion for each post is not necessary as it is an already accepted concept of the board in general? I will agree that the instructor ahould have said something along the lines that the GROUP booked which booked your class did so without provisions for remedial training as needed in the course fees>

That is NOT how it was sold to me and I expect that is not how it was sold to the OP. I was told "OW certification costs $x.00". Eventually they went through the fact that there was classroom and pool as well as open water but at no point did anybody say to me "By the way if you do not get it in the allotted time you are on your own to buy another class.". I have said it a dozen times if I have said it once......the seller decides the conditions when they set the price and how it will get sold. That OP got screwed because the Instructor knew ahead of time (IMO) that he was going to go for more money.

It is great for people to sit,on ScubaBoard and say "Well you should have asked more questions" but the reality is that most new scuba students have no clue where to look or what to ask. This guy took advantage of 7 divers.
 
Couple of things, first, the people bashing Groupon or the fact that the folks took advantage of a Groupon offer are not staying on task and are trying to shift the blame. Shame on those who are doing that.

Second, lets look at a bigger picture. Even in advanced skills and tech classes true failure is RARE. In a group of 7, sure 1 will likely drop out, 1 might legit "fail", but anymore than that and you are looking at a true statistical anomaly. 7 in one class = scam or horrible instructor.

Non-thread-highjacking question: Do instructors have to report their pass/fail rate to a governing body? If they do, one would think the unscrupulous would err on the side of making themself look better by passing more students.

Either way, my conclusion: POS scammer dive shop / instructor. Period, full stop, end of discussion.
 
Steve I believe you are right that the instructor took advantage of the class. I suspect that was done to make a political statement in regards to the way the seats were booked. How ever, being told that you can get certified for x$ comes along with the unspoken condition that the student learn and demonstrate what they have learned. Under that premis no college can be over booked because as long as you pay the tuition you graduate whether you show up or not. Being told the requirements of the course implies you accept having to meet them. For instance in this specific discussion you never told any of the posters of this threads TOS. Do the rules not apply or is it assumed that TOS discussion for each post is not necessary as it is an already accepted concept of the board in general? I will agree that the instructor ahould have said something along the lines that the GROUP booked which booked your class did so without provisions for remedial training as needed in the course fees>

I have to admit that I had a difficult time following your point here, so I may not be responding appropriately. Please correct me if I misunderstood.

There is a HUGE difference between college instruction and the instructional practices of SSI and almost all other agencies.

Most (not all) college instruction is TIME based: they instruct you for a period of time, measure the results of your performance during that period of time, and at the end give you a grade that reflects the degree to which you mastered the material.

Almost all scuba instruction is instead PERFORMANCE based: they keep teaching you until you meet a standard of performance, at which time instruction will cease.

A common description used by educators in comparing the two systems is to say that in traditional education, time is the standard and quality is the variable, whereas in performance based education, quality is the standard and time is the variable.

A better analogy than to college would be to the man who just left my home a few minutes ago after preparing an estimate for radon mitigation. He told me what it would cost me, and he guaranteed that my house would meet radon standards when he was done. If it doesn't, then he has to do whatever it takes to get the job done, all at his cost. I won't be charged another dime.

---------- Post added ----------

Second, lets look at a bigger picture. Even in advanced skills and tech classes true failure is RARE. In a group of 7, sure 1 will likely drop out, 1 might legit "fail", but anymore than that and you are looking at a true statistical anomaly. 7 in one class = scam or horrible instructor.
With an instructor in a typical inland (not resort) dive shop, 1 will drop out every other month or so. No one actually fails a class--they are supposed to keep at it until they pass, however long that takes. When it just isn't working for one reason or another, they come to an agreement to stop trying. That comes in a lot of forms, and it doesn't happen all that often.


Non-thread-highjacking question: Do instructors have to report their pass/fail rate to a governing body? If they do, one would think the unscrupulous would err on the side of making themself look better by passing more students.
If you are working for a shop, your passing rate is definitely known to the shop. On the occasions that I had students drop a class, which wasn't often, I had to have an explanation, and it was usually no problem because it was pretty rare. If I were to go to the shop manager and say that I took 7 students through every skill in a class and decided that none of them had passed and would need to take the whole class over, there would have been a prolonged silence as the manager stared at me in sheer disbelief. Since the scenario is pretty much unimaginable, guessing how long it would have taken before I was fired would be pure fantasy.
 
If you are working for a shop, your passing rate is definitely known to the shop. On the occasions that I had students drop a class, which wasn't often, I had to have an explanation, and it was usually no problem because it was pretty rare. If I were to go to the shop manager and say that I took 7 students through every skill in a class and decided that none of them had passed and would need to take the whole class over, there would have been a prolonged silence as the manager stared at me in sheer disbelief. Since the scenario is pretty much unimaginable, guessing how long it would have taken before I was fired would be pure fantasy.

I think from previous post, the shop owner was the instructor, so no one to answer too.
 

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