Stage Bottle

[radagalf]

So, I have a few questions... and as they can fit under a few topics (DIY, Tanks, Regs, Tech, DIR), I decided Basic Scuba Discussions was a good place to start. Mods feel free to move it if you want.

A bit of background info. I am slowly working my way into tech diving, slowly as I am acquiring the equipment at a time stands still pace. Right now I am looking at setting up a 30 cu ft stage bottle. Why 30?? My sac rate is good enough that it can help me handle any situation that I would encounter at the depths I dive to now, and eventually it would become my oxygen deco bottle.

So for the questions:

1 - I am pretty sure I understand that I should use Aluminum for stage bottles as that way if you use it up you can let it float up your line and get rid of it. Also it doesn't add to your weighting.

2 - I want DIN Valve and reg. Any recommendations for valve? What kind of regulator would i be wanting for a sling tank? What kind of features do I want to be looking for? I am very impressed with Apeks... sorry not big into Scubapro - too parts intensive. Why would you go with an TX Nitrox 40 reg instead of an ATX200 (besides price) or vice versa?

3 - Now, I am hoping to move towards DIR so any of you knowledgeable on the subject please feel free to contribute

4 - How is the best way to set up my stage bottle? I want to do it with materials available from a hardware store as Halcyon, and stage kits haven't made it to my island. Please keep in mind when recommending the clips to use that the eyelets have to be large enough for me to use when I go back to a cold water environment. This is to be done once, and once only and for use in multiple environements. Thus, consider the dry gloves when choosing eyelet size and clips.

5 - Thank you in advance.

Radagalf

 

[Quarrior]

I have no suggestions on this one at all, but am very interested in seeing the responses, so, I'm using this posting to mark the thread to easier follow it.

Brian

 

[The Fresh Prince]

So, I have a few questions... and as they can fit under a few topics (DIY, Tanks, Regs, Tech, DIR), I decided Basic Scuba Discussions was a good place to start. Mods feel free to move it if you want.

A bit of background info. I am slowly working my way into tech diving, slowly as I am acquiring the equipment at a time stands still pace. Right now I am looking at setting up a 30 cu ft stage bottle. Why 30?? My sac rate is good enough that it can help me handle any situation that I would encounter at the depths I dive to now, and eventually it would become my oxygen deco bottle.

So for the questions:

1 - I am pretty sure I understand that I should use Aluminum for stage bottles as that way if you use it up you can let it float up your line and get rid of it. Also it doesn't add to your weighting.

2 - I want DIN Valve and reg. Any recommendations for valve? What kind of regulator would i be wanting for a sling tank? What kind of features do I want to be looking for? I am very impressed with Apeks... sorry not big into Scubapro - too parts intensive. Why would you go with an TX Nitrox 40 reg instead of an ATX200 (besides price) or vice versa?

3 - Now, I am hoping to move towards DIR so any of you knowledgeable on the subject please feel free to contribute

4 - How is the best way to set up my stage bottle? I want to do it with materials available from a hardware store as Halcyon, and stage kits haven't made it to my island. Please keep in mind when recommending the clips to use that the eyelets have to be large enough for me to use when I go back to a cold water environment. This is to be done once, and once only and for use in multiple environements. Thus, consider the dry gloves when choosing eyelet size and clips.

5 - Thank you in advance.

Radagalf

Radagalf, first, scrap the 30, go with the Luxfer 40. When you move into tech, you will understand the reason for carrying the extra gas despite your "SAC" rate. Second, get a 200 bar DIN/K valve. Made by many. Regulator. TX 50 and DS4 first since you don't like Scubapro. Features of the 50 are better than the 40. All their regs come O2 clean already. Don't pay extra for the "Nitrox" label. Third, sign up for a DIRF ASAP. Check the schedule on www.gue.com for your nearest class. This will help you set your bar for needed skills. Fourth, without knowing what supplies you have availible, can't advise as to how to set up your bottle. Have to believe you can order a stage kit from somewhere or check thedecostop.com for homemade kits.

 

[R_Deluca]

If you are planning on going the DIR route, save yourself the headache and get a luxfer 40 right off the bat. I just changed over my 30 to a 40.

I would also suggest you take a DIR-F as soon as possible.

 

[Cave Diver]

If you are planning on going the DIR route, save yourself the headache and get a luxfer 40 right off the bat. I just changed over my 30 to a 40.

I would also suggest you take a DIR-F as soon as possible.

Ditto on the 40cft.

Stage straps are pretty easy to make, but depending on the cost and availability of hardware you may be just as far ahead ordering a pre-fab one.

You need 2 bolt snaps (larger the better for my preference) about 5 1/2' of 3/16" to 1/4" rope, about a foot of hose (clear vinyl or rubber fuel hose works well) and a SS hose clamp appropriately sized for your cylinder.

You might try Reef Scuba for the SS hardware. http://reefscuba.com/ss.htm

 

[Munin]

Why 30?? My sac rate is good enough that it can help me handle any situation that I would encounter at the depths I dive to now, and eventually it would become my oxygen deco bottle.

A 30 will work for oxygen. You might find a 40 more versatile.

1 - I am pretty sure I understand that I should use Aluminum for stage bottles as that way if you use it up you can let it float up your line and get rid of it. Also it doesn't add to your weighting.

30s and 40s are not really buoyant enough to float up a line, at least in my experince. Mine are within few ounces of neutral when completly empty. With the small size of a 40 it's not really necessary anyway. It can be done with 80s easily enough. You are correct about the weighting issue.

2 - I want DIN Valve and reg. Any recommendations for valve? What kind of regulator would i be wanting for a sling tank? What kind of features do I want to be looking for? I am very impressed with Apeks... sorry not big into Scubapro - too parts intensive. Why would you go with an TX Nitrox 40 reg instead of an ATX200 (besides price) or vice versa?

Any kind of single DIN valve will work. Light weight is a plus, but they're all fairly similar. Thermos are common; they are the kind that usually comes with the tank.

IMO, the performance difference, if any, between Apeks reg models is not enough to justify the price difference. Save your money, buy more gear. I would get a DS4/TX50. Some might suggest DST for the swivel, but I've never needed one. Adjustable seconds are a plus.

3 - Now, I am hoping to move towards DIR so any of you knowledgeable on the subject please feel free to contribute

I dive DIR and like it. Others don't. You'll have to see for yourself, but I don't think you could go wrong going the DIR route. Take DIR-F soon if you're considering DIR.

4 - How is the best way to set up my stage bottle? I want to do it with materials available from a hardware store as Halcyon, and stage kits haven't made it to my island. Please keep in mind when recommending the clips to use that the eyelets have to be large enough for me to use when I go back to a cold water environment. This is to be done once, and once only and for use in multiple environements. Thus, consider the dry gloves when choosing eyelet size and clips.

If you can get mail you can get a Halcyon kit. They're expensive but easy, especially if it's your first time setting one up. Otherwise check out dir-diver.com

 

[fdog]

Radagalf, I use Al40 Luxfers, and occasionally an Al63 Luxfer rarely. Both seem to nest under the arm similarly.

I have not placed any big bucks into stage regulators, since the depths are usually "shallow" and don't warrant a high-performance regulator.

Regarding your DIR question, I "cherry pick" the techniques that are best for my diving, so I have many things I do that are "DIR", and others that do not conform. With that in mind, my impression is that a DIR-F class has many excellent skills to offer.

The easiest way to set up the sling is buy one from Dive-Rite, Halcyon etc. $21 is pretty cheap instead of buying the parts and flailing a bit. Still, the instructions are around somewhere, I'm sure, and raw materials are maybe $15.

I remember dragging around steel 72's as stage bottles, and believe me, Al40's are a better match in gas quantity, and way easier to handle.

All the best, James

 

[Lead_carrier]

...... Features of the 50 are better than the 40. All their regs come O2 clean already. Don't pay extra for the "Nitrox" label. .....

A little correction if I might. Only the Nitrox regs are O2clean. The other regs are nitrox compatible for under 40%. The Nitrox regs are O2 clean and can be used with over 50% O2. The regular regs can be O2 cleaned but you'll pay extra for that.

Yes, it is picking a bit but we do need to be as accurate as possible so we don't get each other mixed up.

 

[radagalf]

Wow, thanks for the quick response everybody. Your suggestions are duly noted. One note though:

I am interested in taking DIR-f, I believe my skills are working their way up there. However, what I don't think you may understand is I am now in Bonaire. DIR does not exist down here... yet.

Yes, I know instructors will travel (I have discussed this with MHK already), but as for right now I have no interest in flying an instructor down here by myself (although this would be phenomenal!!!). Reason - finances. I'm sure they (the instructors) would agree that it just wouldn't be financially feasible for them to fly down here to teach ONE person DIR-f. Also, before some people go on this route, there are a couple of DIR divers down here. However, I feel they will have no desire to do DIR-f seeing as they finished Tech 2 a little while ago..

Martin

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The easiest way to set up the sling is buy one from Dive-Rite, Halcyon etc. $21 is pretty cheap instead of buying the parts and flailing a bit. Still, the instructions are around somewhere, I'm sure, and raw materials are maybe $15.

Both of these sites outline the materials and process of making a sling fairly well. Personally I prefer the second one which is the original Hogarthian approach. It uses a double strand of continous piece of rope through the whole process and has fewer knots to fail than the DIR method. I also prefer to use a piece of clear PVC tubing for the "handle". It allows you to visually inspect the rope - something that is not possible if you use some type of opaque tubing.

http://www.dir-diver.com./en/equipment/stagebottle_rigging.html

http://www.bentleytech.com/cave/stage/