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Standard #24 cave line vs low-stretch/hi-viz for primary reel

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by elgoog, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. bamafan

    bamafan Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Panama City Beach, Fl.
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    I have never had issues with a sidewinder type reel (Halcyon / LM) backlash even in Potter or Ebro and they are way worse than any of the tourist caves. I have broke them squeezing through a restriction and bent the sholder bolt in them before but backlash has never been an issue. The DR reels are generally lesser quality and I have had them come apart and they are no where near as smooth
     
  2. Schwob

    Schwob Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Illinois
    1,830
    996
    113
    Slight deviation off topic:
    About that "shackle snap" on that dive right reel:
    I am wondering about pros and cons for leaving it as is or adding a very short line loop between shackle and reel so as to be able to cut it off the shackle for in case I ever had to... That cut-off logic seems to be the norm for almost all else, curious as to why not for the reel (or reels)- which is a big chunk of stuff to get caught in something some day snapped to my butt D-ring or wherever and then if the shackle seized... anyway that's what I wonder about...
     
  3. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
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    a lot of people don't take their light off of their right hand when reeling back in so the light rattles around the cave like a distress signal. There have been many a rapid exit from many of us as we are nearing the EoL and seeing lights flashing around.
    Don't be like this guy, it's obnoxious

    reel_exit.jpg

    If you're like this guy, your light is in the right spot, but you have no means to put tension on the line other than pulling on it. This can be obnoxious if your buddy is trying to help undo wraps/ties/etc. and if you're being pushed out faster than you can reel in *i.e. high flow caves*, then you don't really have any way to get the line with your left hand fingers to put tension on it. If you can reach it, then it puts all of the line on the handle side and it's just generally annoying.

    scubatechphilippines-sidemount-technical-wreck-26.jpg

    This is unreeling, but you can see that the light is held on top of the handle. If you are reeling in, you do the same, which points the light forward without holding onto anything else, and you can hook the line between your index and middle fingers which controls the tension going into the spool itself. What happens ahead of you is largely irrelevant *so long as you don't get wrapped up*, but you can hold the spool and line if you have to let the current push you out of something, then quickly reel in the slack with no ill effect. With the sidewinders you don't really have that much control and it's almost a 2-man operation to reel back in. It's also not really a natural motion to reel in since you are creating a lot of torque against your hand during winding since you are holding onto both sides vs. the middle.
    padicavern.jpg

    @Schwob I only use these for primary reels so if I have one it is unclipped almost immediately after I duck my head under. I use finger spools for just about everything else.

    To each their own, but the sidewinders are not the ideal general use primary reel and I think have only really made as much of a mark as they have because they look cool. Great for laying stupid amounts of line in exploration, nice for towing buoys/flags and stuff since they don't have a hook on them and hold more line than a finger spool, but for a primary reel in a cave? No thank you
     
    elgoog likes this.
  4. Schwob

    Schwob Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Illinois
    1,830
    996
    113
    @tbone1004 :
    Thanks for explaining why you see it the way you do. (Don't deal with a canister light yet, but I'll keep yhat in mind)
     
  5. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: United States
    3,382
    3,755
    113
    Primary reel gets regular cave line. You want some stretch to it. The dacron stuff is great for things like SMB's, especially the hi-viz line when there are several people in the water, often at different stop depths. You've really got to pull cave line really tight to get to the point where you can't lock off a line marker. With dacron, it doesn't take much to put too much tension on it.

    I use sidewinder reels. I've never had a problem with light discipline or with tension, but I work with rope every day so ymmv. I also don't subscribe to the idea that your buddy should be pulling tie-offs. One guy on the reel only, so I don't have random slack line occurrences.

    The Dive Rite reels suck with a goodman handle, in the opposite direction that sidewinder reels suck with a goodman handle. They're both surmountable with some practice. And the plastic they use for the spools sucks. I've had more than a couple disintegrate. They're just not as durable as ones made of delrin. They really don't like UV exposure. It's on the back burner, but eventually I'm going to turn a new delrin spool for my slide lock reel.
     
    elgoog likes this.
  6. Schwob

    Schwob Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Illinois
    1,830
    996
    113
    Hmmm, interesting how seemingly tough it seems to be to arrive at a reel that’s just good w/o any “but, ...”
     
  7. sea_otter

    sea_otter DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Jose, CA
    323
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    Is this a common practice? I have never heard of someone "helping" in that manner.

    @elgoog, you're more than welcome to play with my Halcyon 400 ft pathfinder to see if you want one. I'll join you as well, if you like.
     
  8. ajduplessis

    ajduplessis Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: dry land :-(
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    I only use Dacron on my all reels (cave and OW), it is just as strong and durable as 24# nylon and gives me 30-40% more line on any given reel. I have 560ft of Dacron on my Hollis Seeker 400. I never had tension issues, neither any of my cave partners.
     
  9. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
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    coming out of caves it's a nice thing to do for your buddy, yes. Some instructors don't teach it, but the older school guys do. They train you to be able to take them out on your own obviously, but when you have a buddy that can help the whole process is a lot faster since everything except the primary tie off should be easily removable. It allows you to stay relatively centered in the passage and have a mostly continuous exit vs. having to stop at every tie off, hold/lock the spool, remove the tie off, play catch up with the line, etc etc.
     
  10. JohnnyC

    JohnnyC PADI Pro

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: United States
    3,382
    3,755
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    Like most things, it's a compromise. There are situations where a particular style of reel shines, and situations where it is less than ideal. Often those separate conditions will exist on the same dive, like going in or out of a cave.

    As an example, those click lock (not DR Slide lock) are pretty terrible for everything you use a reel and spool for, EXCEPT towing a dive flag. That's where they're useful and really shine. A spool is the preferred way of shooting an SMB, EXCEPT when you're shooting it deep, like off a wreck, in which case there's a significant possibility that you may not have enough line. They're also a pain for towing a flag. Primary reels are great for what they're designed to do, EXCEPT when you're doing lots of complex navigation and you'd need a boat full of them.

    I find the sidewinder reels have less compromises than the handle style. Just my take on it. I don't begrudge anyone that feels differently.
     
    Jack Hammer likes this.

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