Status of "tankless" breathing system?

[Matsya]

Just had a quick look at the link. It says..................

................This new invention will use the relatively small amounts of air that already exist in water to supply oxygen to both scuba divers and submarines.

The key word is "oxygen". Can you dive with 100% oxygen? I don't have nitrox certification so I am clueless.

 

[Matsya]

Read the article again:
QUOTE
.............Well I have, a few people do not understand the concept, they assume that I separate oxygen from the water and they say correctly that it is toxic below a depth of seven meters and then they ask some technical questions. In this case I want to say again, the device can extract air from the water. It is dissolved air which contains oxygen and nitrogen and so on. It does not extract oxygen from hydrogen."

UNQUOTE

Hmmmm..............the last bit should probably have been "It does not separate oxygen from hydrogen".

 

[kidspot]

FWIW - Some of his other papers written in the past state that the "air" extracted is a 30% nitrox mix. I guess it's basically forcing the water into a state of "off-gassing" like our bodies do during an ascent and collecting the gas (in this case EAN30) released.

Sounds like it's quite a few years from release to our market.

As to safety... Sounds like it will be about as safe as a Closed Circuit Rebreather...

 

[jonnythan]

It never had a prayer. The amount of energy that would be required is absolutely enormous. There is no chance whatsoever of that technology working.

 

[kidspot]

Isn't that what everyone said about heavier than air flight?

 

[Packhorse]

It never had a prayer. The amount of energy that would be required is absolutely enormous. There is no chance whatsoever of that technology working.

And you base this statement on what?
This system does not split water into hydrogen and oxygen (this would require enormous amounts of energy).
It creates a low pressure system that allows disolved gases to seperate from the water.
Just like Nitrogen off gasing after a deep dive, or opening up a bottle of soda and having bubbles appear that were not there before because they were disolved.

 

[Jake]

It never had a prayer. The amount of energy that would be required is absolutely enormous. There is no chance whatsoever of that technology working.

This was my thought as well when reading about it. On the other hand, it seems that the citation of a specific battery size would indicate that they have some idea of the power required. Obviously, "anyone" can make something like this with a nuclear powered engine behind it (which they do), but to reduce that to a 1 kg battery seems less than arbitrary and sounds like there is an educated guess (at least) behind that calculation. That is, it sounds like the designer knows that enormous amounts of power are not, in fact, required. Obviously, animals don't require an "enormous" amount of energy to extract usable O2 from the water, but then again, their circulatory systems are far more efficient, and they don't require the conversion from liquid to gas before the metabolic exchange occurs.

I really have no bloody clue what I'm talking about though, which is why I posted this to see what others knew.

I think I would be up for something like this even if the battery requirements were 10x greater. An hour of dive time with a 22lb negatively bouyant device would still be preferable to a tank!

 

[kidspot]

I assume the power requirements would be similar to those needed for a bilge pump handling the same amount of water? If so, he is talking about under 4000gph (250 litre/min or 66gal/min.) - that's a $175.00 pump that type of pump draws 5amps @ 24volts

It is a lot of power, but not unrealistic even on today's technology.

Here's a 12# battery that delivers 30amp hrs at 28volts ... http://www.dive-xtras.com/scooter/Libat.html

So ... yeah it's a lot of power, but with the advances being made in battery power, it's not as far off as we may think.

Course' I don't understand these things all that well, but it seems "do-able"

One concern I would have: If it is extracting air from the water, what is the percentage of "toxic" gasses present? we all know that air at sea level has to be filtered before it is safe for breathing at depth... would that still be an issue?

Aloha, Tim

P.S. I know the above chart specifies 2000 litres/minute, but in his interview, the inventor says that utilizing a rebreather loop would cut that requirement down to 250 litres/minute...

 

[Sharkbaithawaii]

Is it possible to extract "AIR" from water? I should think you can extract only "OXYGEN" from water? And if that is the case you would be breathing 100% oxygen?

I actually work on these units on the submarines as he states in the article. And you are 100% correct. We use large amounts or electricity to basically pull the the oxygen and hydrogen apart. And the result is pure oxy goes to stowage banks and the hyd goes overgboard. I don't think this will ever work on a small scale.

 

[Packhorse]

. Obviously, "anyone" can make something like this with a nuclear powered engine behind it (which they do), but to reduce that to a 1 kg battery seems less than arbitrary and sounds like there is an educated guess (at least) behind that calculation. That is, it sounds like the designer knows that enormous amounts of power are not, in fact, required. Obviously, animals don't require an "enormous" amount of energy to extract usable O2 from the water, but then again, their circulatory systems are far more efficient, and they don't require the conversion from liquid to gas before the metabolic exchange occurs.

You are missing a very important point.
This device does not extract O2 from water. it undisolves air from the water. Two very diffrent processes.
Nuclear subs use electrolisis to seperate H2from O in H2O.
Why do fish die when left in a bucket of water? because they "breath" all the disolved air in that water. There is plent of oxygen left in the water but the fish cant extract it. Neither can this unit.

I assume the power requirements would be similar to those needed for a bilge pump handling the same amount of water? If so, he is talking about under 4000gph (250 litre/min or 66gal/min.) - that's a $175.00 pump that type of pump draws 5amps @ 24volts

It is a lot of power, but not unrealistic even on today's technology.

Same sort of thing but it would require a bigger pump to create more of a pressure drop.