Stick it out or settle for Rescue Diver?

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DM can be a pain in the ass. I also do not like the PADI method but stuck it out. One thing you'll find out is that not only is it about teaching but what really left the sour taste in my mouth is the emphasis on MARKETING for chrissakes. And it does not get any better. It's one of the reasons I've crossed over to YMCA and NAUI. PADI also really does not let you teach during DM. Demo skills yes but pass on info? No. Not until you plunk down a couple grand or more for the IDC. YMCA not only allows you to teach academic sessions but encourages it. Under the direct supervision of the instructor of course you prepare lectures, conduct the class, conduct and set up pool sessions, etc. This is from DM on. There is some marketing but the bulk of the course is geared to teaching you how to prepare people to dive safely, plan dives, etc. I remember one poster here on the board who had points taken away during his PADI IE because he spent TOO MUCH time on dive theory and not enough on selling con-ed courses to divers. THat is downright dumb to me. If you are having a hard time with skills the biggest advice I can give you is to remember tha tyou are showing someone how to do the skill correctly. Someone who presumably has never done it before. THerefore you must TAKE YOUR TIME and EXAGGERATE every motion to be sure all critical attributes can be observed. A 3 second clear of a full flood with a quick tip of the head and blow will not cut it. You need to emphasize where the hands go, how far back to tilt the head, how far away to tip the mask, and slowly exhale through your nose. Every skill needs to be done like this. SO that the motions are clear to the student. If you can't seem to get it or don't have the desire to improve to this level. Stop. DM may not be for you. Don't waste your time and the instructors. If however you decide you want this then you need to get it in your head that you want it and will work as hard as is required.
 
Jim, you can't argue that their marketing doesn't work though? Can you? Why does YMCA languishes in the bin of endangered species, and PADI thrives where there is no water?

There is a YMCA every 9 square miles here, yet you'd have to drive 50 minutes to find a YMCA course. And it is not even taught at the YMCA !!

It is a pyramid scheme, and it works..... Pass the hat, brother..... And it makes divers happy.

So far, I am enjoying my PADI DM course. No, I've not sat in a lecture session. Just been in the pool.
 
YMCA is in no way an endangered species. In many areas it is thriving. There are not nearly as many instructors true or Y divers. But there also are very few YMCA instructors if any that would pass some of the divers that PADI and some of their instructors consider fit to dive.

If there are no courses taught at your local YMCA's, why not? Could it be that they do not give their members a chance to see if one would be supported. Or are they like many health clubs? Full of yuppies who want things now. People who would not be willing to put in the time and effort a good Y course entails. The minimum amount of time a Y instructor may spend on instruction(pool and classroom) is 32 hours. 40 is recommended for Open Water. Also Y instructors are not required to issue cards unless THEY are satisfied with a students progress.

One of the problems als oencountered even locally with the Y's in More affluent areas is the number of other courses taught at the pools. More and more people are doing things that were not done years ago. Water aerobics, senior swims, family nights, even water polo, etc making pool time difficult to obtain. ALso some Y's do not even have pools. They have contracts with local high schools for their aquatic programs. This leaves even less time as the schools have their own needs. We have a high school here that has open swim 5 nights a week. From 7:30 to 8:30. I once inquired for a shop about getting pool time. We could. It was available. But we would have had to pay a lifeguard, maintenance man, security guard, plus pool rental fees. Worked out to about 150 bucks. A night! Luckily we have one Y that charges us nothing. We get an hour and a half 2 nights a week. I also have one shop that has an indoor pool that will allow me to teach there for free. All I have to do is refer my students to him for gear. No problem as he is very fair with prices and will deal.

As for sitting in on a lecture when doing PADI DM I was allowed to sit in on a couple. But never allowed to do the lecture or even contribute unless specifically asked. As a YMCA DM we are not only permitted but required to sit in, prepare, and give the lectures to new students under the direct supervision of the instructor of course but the belief is you learn to teach by teaching. Not just sitting and watching. One needs to develop their own style and methods. I can also use any materials to get the lesson across as long as standards are met. This means I can use not only the Y manual but also the NOAA manual, Navy Dive Manual, even cite PADI materials if they help the student get it.

Thursday I'm doing the dive table lecture. One of the things I'll be going over in it as required is emergency deco procedures using deco tables. Not just the extra 5 minute stuff. But actually showing students how to do basic deco calculations on the fly if they are carrying tables which they should be if not using computers. This is for open water. I'm more comfortable with teaching this way as opposed to giving out just the basics.

I agree PADI is big and their marketing machine is a juggernaut. I'm keeping my DM status active with them just to keep up on what's going on and to get the training bulletins. I may be able to use good info for my own courses. But lately most of it's been the e-learning stuff which I have a real issue with and frankly have no use for. I like the face to face contact and the chance to really interact with students and see them actually get it. Not just give em a quick quiz which frankly could be passed by anyone who is good at cramming. Face it. There will be those who abuse this method just like the ones who cut corners now. I don't want to even be associated with it.

One other thing- Y courses are usually less expensive. Ours is on average 100 dollars plus cheaper than any other agency in the area. We are not required to purchase expensive "crew paks", videos, etc. Our students are not required to own the manual even though we tell them it's a good idea to have one. How many PADI divers actually even look at theirs again once they are certed? ANd the Manual for the Y program can be purchased on Amazon used for 15 bucks or less. Heck my Instructor materials were only 106 bucks for everything. I paid more than that just for my PADI instructor manual at level three pricing. It was 107 and change. I'm also not required to have a DM crew pak, rescue crew pak, AOW crew pak, and all the other ones. I've got em. But I coulda saved over 500 bucks in materials alone. My instructor exam- 670 dollars for everything. Cheapest IDC I've seen, complete, is around 2600. DM course usually 299- complete, AI 199- complete, So 500 for those two. BUt I'm already a DM so I'm getting a better rate doing a crossover. I've seen DM course fees alone that are 400 plus. Mine was. That did not include books. So I'm glad you're enjoying your PADI course. I enjoyed mine until the things that I considered to be against my ethics had to be done. I won't push con-ed to those who are not ready. I won't take ow divers and start pushing rescue before they've even got their checkout dives in. I won't make them buy gear and materials they'll likely never use again to make a buck. I'll not make them buy useless materials to teach them skills and knowledge that they can get in the classroom for just the course fee and a $1 notebook and pen. I also refuse to push useless specialties like boat diver, fish ID ( go to any book store and pick up a 10 dollar guide to fishes), or things like manatee awareness that can only be taught by a shop who seems to see it as mantee wrangling and PADI does nothing about it.

Nah. I'm going with an agency that does not conflict with my moral and ethical beliefs. And allows me the freedom to use whatever methods and materials( as long as they do not conflict with the standards) will produce the safest, best qualified divers I can to take part in the sport.
 
I don't see a moral or ethical dilemma in PADI instruction. In many ways, I see their program is better than one of the local SSI program. But again, this is not comparing agency to agency. The variety of style by the PADI instructor means that one student could get lots of time and attention, and another gets very little. We usually have two instructor, one DM, and one DM student with 4 to 5 students. Last week we had one instructor, one DM, and myself. The three or 4 of us worked well together with the small class size. I think that the student get plenty of personal attention, and good instruction. But then, another instructor could rush things through. I see that the 6 to 8 hours of pool time was adequate to get good teaching. But certainly more is better.

I've considered auditing or taking the local Y's class. But it is 5 weeks, 5 pool sessions, 5 class sessions. Then 5 OW dives over 2 days. The cost is comparable if not slightly less than SSI or PADI classes.

I can see that in today's "I want it now" society, it is hard to make it to 5 sessions alone, not to mention 10 days plus 2 equals 12 days. The long days of these 2 day intensive course is tough... But it is much more doable, then you add 2 more days for the OW dives. If you miss a day, you just repeat it the next month. Whereas, the YMCA doesn't have repeated classes, and therefore it is much harder to repeat.

Hopefully you will have a successful business. I am sure you will produce good divers, Jim.
 
Slim,
It doesn't sound like you are into it at all right now so I would encourage you to drop it and wait and see how you feel later.
Another thing is if you are in a class where you can possibly get your DM in 3 weeks then it is not worth taking...
 
Slim,
For PADI (and I assume the other agencies too) the actual DM course IS all about how to help teach the basic skills. There are of course the theory and swim test parts as well, but really it is about "demonstration standard skills" to help out with classes. However, even if being a guide or as boat crew and never helping with a class, a shop may require you to have the DM cert for insurance purposes.

if you were a DM in Curacao what would you be doing ? Sounds like if it would be helping with classes you wouldn't really enjoy that but if it was being a dive guide or mixture of dive guide/boat hand then you probably would enjoy it more - so if that is your interest it would be worth continuing.

now being able to get part time holiday work with it...good luck with that :)
 
The other shoe has dropped. I bailed.

I was talking to one of the DMs at The Dive Bus (Curacao), who gave me the only positive reason I could come up with for sticking it out. He pointed out that the DM is sort of a de facto instructor on every dive. Most of the customers are going to be less experienced than he and many will be looking to him for guidance and as a role model. That almost convinced me. Almost.

In the end, I decided I was sleepwalking through the process. I chose a time when I have too many distractions to give the course the attention it merits, and I didn’t enter in to the process for the right reasons. While I might have been able to go through the motions and get the cert, that doesn’t mean the end product would have been a credit to the term Dive Master.

And that was the deciding factor.

Thanks to all for your input.
 
Congratulations on your decision and for arriving at it with maturity and rationality.
 
"To thine own self be true"
 
Guess I should have read all the posts before writing a long reply. Anyway good luck!
 

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