Sundiver Woes Continue

[Wookie]

What is your point? The Captain involved lost her license because of this. My point was that this was not the second event for her, nor were the circumstances the same. So to answer your question- yes, I'll dive with them again, and have since this happened.

I get that. I get that your tolerance for someone getting left behind due to the inability to count is higher than the Coast Guards'. I'm trying to determine what your limit is. How many does the crew of the Sundiver have to leave behind before you choose not to dive with them?

I'm told that I would like Kyaa. I've never met her, probably won't. She paid the price for leaving someone behind, although Silver-Valker paid a higher price, but we'll never know what happened to her. I too have left a diver behind, but I did look for him for 3 days before I left the dive site.

Some will say that it is bad luck that it happened to the same boat twice. My opinion is that it's a bad management style combined (or leading to) a fatal lack of attention to detail. The captain has been changed. How about the culture?

 

[undrwater]

How about the culture?

This is VERY important.

 

[merxlin]

The culture was never such that they were lax in roll calls or accounting for divers on any of the 100's of dives I've done on that boat. After the first case where it was a DM in the employ of the shop that hired the charter taking roll, they changed the process so that only boat staff (Captain or DM) did roll calls.

 

[keithbt]

The Company Sundiver has absolutly had 2 incidents. The same owner for both incidents. When you own a company you must take responsibility for anything that happens. Culture in a company has to come from the top down.

 

[gcarter]

Unfortunate. Kyaa is one of "the good guys". She's one of the very few who understand how to run a professional operation and cater to the right part of the market that ensures the growth of the industry. I'm sure Sundiver will continue to operate. There's nothing preventing Kyaa from being the "Divemaster" on her own boat with another licensed captain. I'd happily volunteer to drive the boat under her (unofficial) command when I'm in town.

A professional operation does not leave divers behind. A professional operation does a proper roll call and verifies all souls are on board before weighing anchor.

I would not consider using this operation with her in charge, whether she is captaining or not. Her leadership is clearly lacking.

 

[gcarter]

The culture was never such that they were lax in roll calls or accounting for divers on any of the 100's of dives I've done on that boat. After the first case where it was a DM in the employ of the shop that hired the charter taking roll, they changed the process so that only boat staff (Captain or DM) did roll calls.

How did that work out? And why was the Captain - the individual that was always responsible - abrogating responsibility in favor of a passenger in the first place?

 

[red_instead]

I used to dive Sundiver a lot. When I first heard about this incident, and that it was Sundiver and Laurel, my first thought was to what I had observed once or twice on Sundiver in regard to Laurel when I had finished a dive early/my dive buddy had to sit out a dive. A couple times, Laurel would be working as a deckhand/in the galley and when the gates were open and the divers had all gone into the water, she would occasionally take a BC a and tank that she had there for that purpose and go do her own dive/underwater yoga or grab a bug. I don't know that I ever saw her check out on the dive roster the one or two times I saw her do it, but my impression from the conversations I had with her was that she did it semi-regularly, while she was essentially working as crew, and if it went down that way that would seem to explain how she got left behind. In my experience Sundiver has otherwise always been very thorough with roll call.

I wasn't on the boat when it happened and have no first hand information. If it happened similar to the instances I described, it points to a practice that should never have been allowed to go on due to this exact potential outcome. If it did not, it still points to multiple failures that should never have happened. Leaving a diver behind is obviously the master's responsibility, and inexcusable no matter the circumstance.

I don't know that I want to wade too far into this, but I will say that it's tragic all the way around, for Laurel's family and the people who knew her, and also for Kyaa, not because she had to surrender her master's license, but because she lost someone who was obviously a dear friend.

 

[dytis-sm]

The sun diver crews and Kyaa are some of the best I have come across. I personally feel that what happened on that day was a perfect storm of unfortunate events. A crew member jumping in the water on their own without informing anyone and then having an accident. The DM manning the gate should have kept track of this and apparently he/ she did not. I do not know of a boat where the captain does roll calls. But the captain carries the legal responsibility and this is what this is all about. Somehow this was not questioned while everyone seems to blame Kyaa who is only assuming responsibility for her crew's screw up...

 

[red_instead]

Well, Kyaa knew this was Laurel's habit and practice. And more than likely so did the DM. Again, I don't know that this is what happened, but it seems plausible that it did, and was certainly a risky behavior. Somebody should have put the kibosh on it the first time it happened: you're either a diver, or you're crew and you stay out of the water, so that people know whether you're on the boat.

 

[scubadada]

...I do not know of a boat where the captain does roll calls...

All 4 boats I frequently dive with have roll call done by the captain, Underwater Explorers, Starfish, and Loggerhead out of Boynton Beach and Jupiter Dive Center, Jupiter.