Support your local Dive Operators

[Couv]

I realize that fuel prices are a huge factor in determining the price local operators must charge. That may be out of the control of the operator, and even more so out of the control of the customer. However, that doesn't change the simple fact that you don't get much for the amount you spend. I really enjoy rig diving and would love to do more. But on the last 3 tank charter I was on, the first 2 dives were on the same 3 leg rig in about 95 fsw-then we moved to another 3 leg rig and saw pretty much the same thing. I fully understand that in order to go further out it would cost more. But again, one has to justify the dollars spent. Yes, I know it cost more to get to and from Cozumel/Roatan/Bonaire etc. but I can take the same $225-$350 spent on a local trip and add a day or more to a more distant vacation.

The Fling: Well the Fling has issues. The last time I was on the Fling I brought along a 100 cu ft steel tank. The tank monkey (I'm a former tank monkey, so I'm allowed to use the term) refused to fill the tank to 3442 even though the valve and tank are rated and marked to that pressure. The equipment on board is fully capable to service 3442 and higher. After the first dive, we took it up with the captain who decided "well, he (the fill guy) is the one responsible-but I've talked him into giving you 3200 psi.)" OK, I lived with that. Then the tank monkey says he cannot fill my 40cu ft. I don't know why, but I lived with that too. Next, a friend went on a Fling charter and was given grief about his pony. It was filled already and was in current hydro, but the VIP was expired. My friend explained he would not need a fill on the pony and that by sensible standards, he should be allowed to use the tank. "no, you cannot bring it on board" was the answer. After threatening to turn around and ask for a refund, the Fling crew temporarily came to their senses. Next comes the statement (right here on SB) by one of the captains that if you bring your own tank, it must be filled if you want to make the first dive with it. This little surprise is not included on any of the information posted at their web site.

Not wanting any more surprises, 3 friends and I canceled our last 3 day trip. If the Fling is really hurting for business why would they be so unprofessional as to lose ~ $2800 over silly "policies?" Yes, we tried to address these simple issues after paying the deposit, but could not get them resolved. I'll just keep my $700 and put it toward extending my Cozumel trip.

As for the local guys going out to the rigs-I don't know the answer. They'll have to find a way to give the customer more bang for the buck or less buck for the bang.

 

[ReefHound]

And Captain Beard has responded to me on Facebook (no offense to you Reefhound as I'm sure you have been busy this weekend).

Doubles are allowed on his boat as well.

This keeps getting better. I am currently working on a doubles charter with Capt. Beard in August........

No offense taken. We were out on charters both Saturday and Sunday. You're the guy who asked about double 80's? Capt doesn't know anything about doubles and asked my thoughts about it. I said no reason not to just they may have to lay on the floor on some cushioning or strapped alongside the single tanks. And space limitations probably means one set of doubles, so two tanks unless you want to do a third dive with a single.

The reason for 4 divers is space. With 5 divers (4 passengers and DM) it is full. We had an extra diver yesterday (special case) and there was gear all over the place. It's just not pleasant for passengers when you're constantly stepping over gear and looking for a place to sit. A bigger boat that could take out 8-10 would be more economical... if you could fill it.

---------- Post added June 24th, 2013 at 08:57 AM ----------

The Fling: Well the Fling has issues. The last time I was on the Fling I brought along a 100 cu ft steel tank. The tank monkey (I'm a former tank monkey, so I'm allowed to use the term) refused to fill the tank to 3442 even though the valve and tank are rated and marked to that pressure. The equipment on board is fully capable to service 3442 and higher.

I fill tanks on the Fling but I'm not speaking for the Fling officially. The homepage says "NOTICE: All tanks brought onboard the Fling must have a current visual inspection sticker, current hydrostatic test and must be full. We do allow pony tanks up to 30cf. Pony tanks are for emergency use only and will not be refilled without the permission of the Captain." I don't know how long it's been there. My understanding is this is some law or regulation. It even applies to crew. Ask me how I know. :blinking:

The fills cut off automatically at 3400. We (I) fill all tanks to nearly that to account for cooling off. For HP tanks, I'll go back after cooling and direct fill (slow) to 3400. Tanks should be full because the compressors aren't running til morning and the banks aren't full til after the first dive. Everything works on a precise schedule. However, that is a policy not a law so is subject to negotiation. Did you fly in and have to check the tank with valve removed? Well I'm pretty sure you'll get a fill. Ponies are meant to be emergency use only. There's no way to tell if someone got in a bind and used it because they were LOA or they were "practicing". We see lots of competent and sensible divers. We see others too...

Lately with Capt Beard we have been doing the first two dives on Star Reef or nearby Liberty/Fogg then a third dive on GA-040A which is a three leg rig in 115'. The wrecks need a really good day as the murk layer in the gulf is usually 10-20 feet, and so is the relief on the wrecks. We had poor viz on Star Reef this weekend but before that I'd never seen less than 40'.

 

[halocline]

57 AM ----------



I fill tanks on the Fling but I'm not speaking for the Fling officially. The homepage says "NOTICE: All tanks brought onboard the Fling must have a current visual inspection sticker, current hydrostatic test and must be full. We do allow pony tanks up to 30cf. Pony tanks are for emergency use only and will not be refilled without the permission of the Captain." I don't know how long it's been there. My understanding is this is some law or regulation.

That's new. I've brought empty tanks on the Fling every time I've been on. If you're paying a nitrox fee, you deserve to have the tank filled with nitrox for every dive. The Fling has always filled my empty tank with nitrox for the first dive. Charging divers for nitrox for the trip and then refusing to provide nitrox for the first dive is pretty crazy. I know, I know, there's only 12 hours before the first dive, how ever will the crew find time to fill those tanks?

There's no law or regulation about tanks being brought on must be filled. That excuse is getting pretty tired. Certainly the regulations exist about inspection stickers, but that's not what we're talking about, is it.

 

[chrpai]

Hmmmmm

I dive an LP95 and don't keep it O2 clean because Lake Travis isn't worth it. So if I pay the extra $$$ for Nitrox I'll have to dive Air on the first dive? I also dive an AL40. So I'm not allowed to bring that because I might be an idiot? What if I bleed it down to 2250? Is it considered an AL30 then?

Ya, I can see how some are annoyed by these policies. Frankly I don't think the Fling can afford to be having policies like this. There are only so many active divers these days and it's probably not a good thing to be chasing us off.

 

[Wookie]

Ya, I can see how some are annoyed by these policies. Frankly I don't think the Fling can afford to be having policies like this. There are only so many active divers these days and it's probably not a good thing to be chasing us off.

The policy came about when Capt. Ken and I wrote it. I will speak to it, as I was there when.....

We had divers who would use their pony as an extend-a-dive kit. Now, who here believes that a pony is an extend-a-dive kit? A pony is meant to be used in an emergency to get your smelly butt back to the surface alive, not because you are an air hog. If you are an air hog, bring a bigger main cylinder. Ken and I believed that running out of gas is the fastest way to die in the Flower Gardens (aside from Myocardial Infarction) and the best way we could bring all folks back alive and upright was to limit the number who run out of air. The policy on the Fling (when I was still there) and on the Spree still today is that if you use your pony and you didn't have a failure of your main cylinder, you are considered to be out of air with the consequences, whatever they are.

There are a lot of good divers that travel to the Flower Gardens. There are also a tremendous number of newbies. With as many as 30 divers on a boat, 27 of which may have just gotten out of OW class, the rules are set for the least common denominator. We set it up that way because we saw many boats with 27 fresh certification cards, sometimes cards signed that day from Mammoth Lake. You want a special charter? Charter the boat. Get 27 of your friends to pony up the fee and I'll bet Ken/Sharon/Bland will let you do your thing. But don't expect to bring doubles, deco gas, and have an open deck on a mixed trip. It's too hard to run 2 different diving protocols from the same boat.

As far as bring the full tank goes, the DM's have 4 hours to dock, off load 30 smelly bodies and their gear, change linens, clean the boat, wash the boat, load groceries, shower, and look presentable on a turnaround. Now, filling one guys tank isn't a big deal, or even 2 or 3, but what if all 30 bring an empty? The compressors aren't running, and a full round of fills takes 2-3 hours. The deck crew needs to be off the deck for 12 hours per day by law, 8 hours has to be contiguous, again by law. So, the boat leaves the dock at 9:30 and ties up to a buoy at 6:00 for a 7:00 jump. When exactly is that 8 hours of off time supposed to come? The "bring a full tank" rule was before my time, it was from back when Gary Rinn owned the boats.

When I moved to Florida we relaxed our rules considerably. Why? The diving is easier here, the crew not nearly as uptight, because we hardly ever have to rescue anyone any more, and the customers truly are better divers than the average diver we encountered in Texas. We don't have to have rules to help keep the least common diver alive. They do it themselves. Texas divers aren't bad divers as a rule, but conditions in the Flower Gardens can be very challenging, and dive shops like to use Flower Gardens trips as a training location.

 

[ReefHound]

That's new. I've brought empty tanks on the Fling every time I've been on. If you're paying a nitrox fee, you deserve to have the tank filled with nitrox for every dive. The Fling has always filled my empty tank with nitrox for the first dive. Charging divers for nitrox for the trip and then refusing to provide nitrox for the first dive is pretty crazy. I know, I know, there's only 12 hours before the first dive, how ever will the crew find time to fill those tanks?

There's no law or regulation about tanks being brought on must be filled. That excuse is getting pretty tired. Certainly the regulations exist about inspection stickers, but that's not what we're talking about, is it.

Sorry, I was referring to the hydro/viz with regards to laws. Later I said it was policy not law with regards to first fill.

You get your tank filled after the last dive - one for the road - so you're getting as many fills as dives. You don't have to bring your own tanks. The boat will be happy to provide you one for your first dive. You're not being denied nitrox for your first dive.

---------- Post added June 24th, 2013 at 10:51 AM ----------

Hmmmmm

I dive an LP95 and don't keep it O2 clean because Lake Travis isn't worth it. So if I pay the extra $$$ for Nitrox I'll have to dive Air on the first dive? I also dive an AL40. So I'm not allowed to bring that because I might be an idiot? What if I bleed it down to 2250? Is it considered an AL30 then?

Ya, I can see how some are annoyed by these policies. Frankly I don't think the Fling can afford to be having policies like this. There are only so many active divers these days and it's probably not a good thing to be chasing us off.

I would agree. I don't have any influence in the policies. I'm not even qualified to interpret the policies. I was just giving some of my personal opinion only. I don't have a clue why 30cf is ok and 40cf is not. If you pay for nitrox I think the boat will be happy to give you a nitrox tank for your first dive.

 

[francousteau]

The homepage says "NOTICE: All tanks brought onboard the Fling must have a current visual inspection sticker, current hydrostatic test and must be full. We do allow pony tanks up to 30cf. Pony tanks are for emergency use only and will not be refilled without the permission of the Captain." I don't know how long it's been there. My understanding is this is some law or regulation.

Your understanding is that there's "some law or regulation" regarding no "pony tanks" over 30cf? Or there's a what? Federal law? State law? saying there has to be a "current visual inspection sticker"??? What happens, the police stop you and check your VIP and throws you in jail if it's not up to date? You're kidding, right! Because it's too freaking funny! The hydro is regulated by DOT.

There's no law or regulation about tanks being brought on must be filled. That excuse is getting pretty tired. Certainly the regulations exist about inspection stickers, but that's not what we're talking about, is it.

Coast Guard rules the seas! Yes, even in the Texas Gulf! They don't care where the tanks are filled! And VIP's are only regulated by the scuba industry, not Feds or locals.

 

[ReefHound]

Whatever. Maybe it's the insurer dictating that. In any case that's the written policy.

 

[Couv]

RH, you're a very good DM and I expect you handle the tank fill duty with equal competence. But, I for one don't want to spend that kind of money and gamble on having a hassle over some silly "policy." OK, so no 40cu ft pony-I don't agree, but would abide. If you don't want to fill the pony I can understand that. But if the pony is full when I bring it on board, it still meets the DOT standard which prohibits filling a tank that is out of hydro-the standard does not say empty the tank and don't fill it until re-qualified. Moreover, as others have pointed out, if I bring my tank and pay for Nitrox-it should be filled with Nitrox for every dive.

You see, it's these little unknowns that we have come to expect from the Fling that turn divers away.

 

[chrpai]

My choice of a 3AL 40 for a pony and a 3AA LP95 and SS backplate for my main rig, how I would use them correctly and optimally and how that use could be audited should be obvious to all. Sounds like everything would be fine if I was happy to use the boats 80's and a spare air.