Surface Marker - What to tie it too.

[tursiops]

Some states/countries require that the marker bouy MUST be anchored to the bottom and CANNOT be towed.
There is a thread on this forum specifically about dive flag laws.

The OP is in France/Switzerland, where there is no "diver down" flag, just the international Alpha.
Towing forbidden in France and Switzerland? Show me; I've already checked the Swiss laws...nothing. You do France, that seems fair.
There is a whole forum on ScubaBoard about dive flags; ae you referring to a thread in particular?

 

[Doc Harry]

are you referring to a thread in particular?

The Scubaboard Dive Flag Forum

 

[Roy_W]

In relation to the French Laws

ARRETE PREFECTORAL N° 019/2018 REGLEMENTANT LA NAVIGATION ET LA PRATIQUE DE LA PLONGEE SOUS-MARINE LE LONG DU LITTORAL DES CÔTES FRANCAISES DE MEDITERRANEE

https://www.premar-mediterranee.gou.../arretes/84d7b346ea210987d2b860921844be8d.pdf

Translation as follows for the non -french speakers
"Any single diver (scuba or freediving) must signal his presence with a red flag with a white diagonal.
Within a radius of 100 meters from a flag indicating the presence of a diver, an appropriate speed must be maintained at all times to ensure the safety of the diver. appropriate speed must be maintained at all times to ensure the safety of the diver; in any case, this speed will be limited to 5 knots.
5 knots. This last provision also applies around a brightly colored buoy signalling the presence of an underwater hunter."

In relation to the Swiss Laws it is also obligatory ( Article 32) ...

Fedlex

"Lors de plongée subaquatique à partir de la rive, un panneau reproduisant la lettre «A» du Code international de signaux (pavillon en forme de guidon à deux pointes dont la moitié côté hampe est blanche et l’autre moitié bleue) doit être hissé."

I must admit that I have dived in the Lac Leman and the Lake of Neuchatel from the Swiss shores and have never seen an Alpha Flag.. In my club they don't let us dive without it, which is very unusual as I am in a French club, normally it's the Swiss that are sticklers for the rules. For anyone that doesn't know the shores of Lake Leman ( Wrongly known as the Lake of Geneva) it is about half and half Swiss/French. ( The Swiss have the longest coast line but not by much ). I dive mostly in Hermance and Tougues sites ( Swiss and French respectively ) and there is only about 2 kms between each site, they are truly on the corresponding borders.

I honestly don't care too much about the laws but the assurers can be a whole other world of pain.. I work for an assurer and believe me they will very quickly show you the clause that states that you are not covered because you didn't apply article "X" when it suits them.
My wife had a visit to the Hyperbaric chamber in Geneva recently, luckily nothing to serious, but I am glad that we didn't have to pay the bill. DAN were very nice ( and also the European Insurance card).

Anyone my question concerning the buoy has been answered and I am happy to learn that solutions do indeed exist and that appear to be relatively easy to solve, a 2kg anchor.

 

[James79]

If you do try towing the flag (it really isn't a big deal, I just hold the reel to the side and back), don't ever attach it to you. Just hold the reel, that way if someone/something snags it (think boater/boat/jet ski) you can just let go instead of being along for the ride.

Respectfully,

James

 

[tursiops]

The Scubaboard Dive Flag Forum

There are 82 threads and over a thousand posts in the Dive Flag Awareness forum.

Searching on "law" brings up 8 pages of hits. Searching on "France" brings up two posts, but irrelevant. Searching on "Switzerland" or "Swiss" brings up one hit that is irrelevant. Searching on "tie off" brings up 11 hits, one of which is your post saying you MUST tie it off in your state.
Can you provide any other citations?

In relation to the French Laws

ARRETE PREFECTORAL N° 019/2018 REGLEMENTANT LA NAVIGATION ET LA PRATIQUE DE LA PLONGEE SOUS-MARINE LE LONG DU LITTORAL DES CÔTES FRANCAISES DE MEDITERRANEE

https://www.premar-mediterranee.gou.../arretes/84d7b346ea210987d2b860921844be8d.pdf

Translation as follows for the non -french speakers
"Any single diver (scuba or freediving) must signal his presence with a red flag with a white diagonal.
Within a radius of 100 meters from a flag indicating the presence of a diver, an appropriate speed must be maintained at all times to ensure the safety of the diver. appropriate speed must be maintained at all times to ensure the safety of the diver; in any case, this speed will be limited to 5 knots.
5 knots. This last provision also applies around a brightly colored buoy signalling the presence of an underwater hunter."

In relation to the Swiss Laws it is also obligatory ( Article 32) ...

Fedlex

"Lors de plongée subaquatique à partir de la rive, un panneau reproduisant la lettre «A» du Code international de signaux (pavillon en forme de guidon à deux pointes dont la moitié côté hampe est blanche et l’autre moitié bleue) doit être hissé."

I must admit that I have dived in the Lac Leman and the Lake of Neuchatel from the Swiss shores and have never seen an Alpha Flag.. In my club they don't let us dive without it, which is very unusual as I am in a French club, normally it's the Swiss that are sticklers for the rules. For anyone that doesn't know the shores of Lake Leman ( Wrongly known as the Lake of Geneva) it is about half and half Swiss/French. ( The Swiss have the longest coast line but not by much ). I dive mostly in Hermance and Tougues sites ( Swiss and French respectively ) and there is only about 2 kms between each site, they are truly on the corresponding borders.

I honestly don't care too much about the laws but the assurers can be a whole other world of pain.. I work for an assurer and believe me they will very quickly show you the clause that states that you are not covered because you didn't apply article "X" when it suits them.
My wife had a visit to the Hyperbaric chamber in Geneva recently, luckily nothing to serious, but I am glad that we didn't have to pay the bill. DAN were very nice ( and also the European Insurance card).

Anyone my question concerning the buoy has been answered and I am happy to learn that solutions do indeed exist and that appear to be relatively easy to solve, a 2kg anchor.

So, in short, the French Mediterranean coast requires the US "diver down" flag, but Switzerland requires the blue and white Alpha flag, and neither requires it to be tied off. Am I understanding correctly?

 

[kinoons]

False.

Check your local dive laws.
Some states/countries require that the marker bouy MUST be anchored to the bottom and CANNOT be towed.
There is a thread on this forum specifically about dive flag laws.

For instance:

§20-4A-2. "Diver down" flag required; flag specifications.​

(1) No person may skin or scuba dive in any waters of the state that are used by motorboats unless the diving area is marked by one "diver down" flag displayed at all times while a diver is in the water.

(2) The "diver down" flag shall be a red field with a white diagonal stripe not less than one and one-half inches wide running upper left to lower right. The dimensions of the flag shall be not less than ten inches by ten inches and the top of the flag shall be at least three feet above the surface of the water.

(3) The "diver down" flag shall be anchored and affixed to a separate flotation device. No such flag may be attached to any navigational device or placed so as to obstruct boat traffic.

(4) A diver must surface within one hundred feet of the "diver down" flag marking his diving area.

Perhaps it’s just me, but I do not read that sentence as anchored to the bottom, but that the flag must be anchored (as in perminately held in place) and affixed (attached) to an independent flotation device.

Has anyone ever asked for clarification of that location’s law?

If you’re doing a drift dive or going from one side of the reef to another how do you not carry the surface marker and also surface within 100 yards of the marker?

 

[Lorenzoid]

(3) The "diver down" flag shall be anchored and affixed to a separate flotation device.

I agree with kinoons. Totally ambiguous. Does it mean the flag shall be anchored (to something) and shall be affixed to a separate flotation device, or does it mean the flag shall be "anchored and affixed" to a separate flotation device? Must have been written by a lawyer!

Perhaps it’s just me, but I do not read that sentence as anchored to the bottom, but that the flag must be anchored (as in perminately held in place) and affixed (attached) to an independent flotation device.

 

[Doc Harry]

Perhaps it’s just me, but I do not read that sentence as anchored to the bottom, but that the flag must be anchored (as in perminately held in place) and affixed (attached) to an independent flotation device.

Has anyone ever asked for clarification of that location’s law?

Yes, I was ticketed by police and natural resources officer when I complained to them that a boat almost hit me when I surfaced next to my dive flag. The boat was travelling very fast.

The speeding boat was being operated by the Dive Rescue Team of the Charleston Fire Department. The Dive Rescue Team told the police that they weren't required to avoid dive flags, and the police agreed. Divers are required to have dive flags, but there is no law in this state that requires boats to avoid dive flags.

The police and natural resources officer ticketed me for violating the law because I had been towing the flotation device with the dive flag. They informed me that the flotation device with the dive flag had to be anchored in a fixed location, and it was illegal to tow the dive flag around the lake. I went to court and lost.

 

[Roy_W]

So, in short, the French Mediterranean coast requires the US "diver down" flag, but Switzerland requires the blue and white Alpha flag, and neither requires it to be tied off. Am I understanding correctly?

In France :

From my own understanding, its "roughly" as follows. A boat or similar motorised vehicule is consigned to use a fixed Alfa Flag in order to signal to others that divers are below the boat. The flag should be fixed at a given height and be visible from all sides. (Height varies according to the size of the boat)
Divers, diving on their own, are to use the Red and White Diagonal "Divers Below" Flag . If divers were to use the Alfa Flag I do not believe that it would be a problem outside of the fact that they would have problem displaying it high enough out of the water. Although displaying in on a fixed mast at the end of a Pier would probably be Ok ( Such is the case st Saint Disdille) .

So in France both can be used depending on the circumstances.

In Switzerland :
In the article 32 of the Swiss Law I can only see mention of the Alfa Flag, there is no mention of the "Divers Below" Flag ( Red and White Diagonal). Everyone here understands its meaning though.. When the Swiss divers come to dive from shore on our French site they usually have an orange bouy with a Red and White Diagonal flag on top.

So basically it would never be a major problem to use either at either location when shore diving, when diving from a boat the Alfa is obligatory in both countries.

 

[Pressurehead]

In Australia any boat is excluded from operating within 30 metres of a diver in the water if a Code A flag is displayed.
Here is a guide to some rules here.

Using a Dive Float and Flag - The Scuba Doctor

The Scuba Doctor explains how to dive safely with a dive float and dive flag.

www.scubadoctor.com.au