Swim Test?

[SparticleBrane]

BUT it also stops over zealous control freaks creating a beasting course thats of no benefit to the student what so ever.

Example?

 

[String]

As above. Ive seen people demanding ludicrous times for a swimming test, extras like forcing one to the other, doing the treads carrying weights and so on.

Training wise ive seen enforced "stress tests" involving various bits of kit removed and ripped off the diver "until they're happy".

Know of one person that insisted the ability to remove and fully replace the kit while neutrally buoyancy in a pool and so on.

We're talking entry level here - there is absolutely no point in creating artificial barriers that benefit no one like the above.

The problem with any agency wording that allows that is it allows "old military style" instructors to make their courses needlessly difficult and scare people off. The unqualified diver has no way of knowing if their instructor follows agency standards or invents his own and aren't qualified enough to be able to make an informed choice of the above.

There is a boundary between improving the course and adding pointless irrelevant tasks and without guidelines there would be no way to weed out the latter.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The PADI instructor manual for Divemaster lists specific requirements for the Water Skills and Stamina Exercises. They're written in "blue" which means they are a standard and cannot be modified.

You are right. My bad. My instructor always added a few extra things to all my courses. Not much extra effort required but the insight gained and experience was worth it. ANd it's why I'm going for YMCA instructor next spring. Higher standards to begin with and a little more freedom to structure the courses to the students.

 

[ronski101]

Back in the dark ages I got certified at the local junior college. We started with about 80 students and ended up with about 15. The weeding consisted of the following:
1. Jump in feet first and swim the length of the pool (25 yds) underwater without fins.
2. Swim 200 yds under 4 min. I barely made that with 4 sec to spare.
3. Tread water for 1 min with the last 15 sec with your hands in the air. But the kicker was you did not have fins and you were wearing a 20 lb weight belt.

 

[Parysa]

I like to get them chatting about diving during the tread and I don't stop the timer until someone asks if the 5 minutes are up

My instructor told us we could stop when we made him laugh. Try telling jokes while treading water, lol.

 

[Walter]

There is a boundary between improving the course and adding pointless irrelevant tasks

Yes, but lots of skills can be added before that boundary is even in sight with most standards. This is a non-issue. The restriction of not allowing additional requirements is one of economics, not quality instruction.

without guidelines there would be no way to weed out the latter.

Guidelines do not have to be not allowing instructors to add additional requirements. NAUI and YMCA have done quite nicely with their approach.

 

[String]

Yes, but lots of skills can be added before that boundary is even in sight with most standards. This is a non-issue. The restriction of not allowing additional requirements is one of economics, not quality instruction.

Disagree entirely. Yes lots of skills can be added, that's fine as long as it improves the course and doesn't create artificial barriers especially at entry level. Its nothing to do with economics, its about making the course manageable in size and content so as not to totally scare off a beginner whilst also ensuring people reach the same rough grade.
You could argue the base standards for the courses are too low (and im inclined to agree there) but thats a different debate entirely.

Guidelines do not have to be not allowing instructors to add additional requirements. NAUI and YMCA have done quite nicely with their approach.

It'll work with some instructors and wont work with others. As i said, i've seen some fairly nasty examples of "weeding out" type courses.

 

[Lead_carrier]

The PADI instructor manual for Divemaster lists specific requirements for the Water Skills and Stamina Exercises. They're written in "blue" which means they are a standard and cannot be modified.

I was starting the DM course and the instructor changed the swim requirement to a freestyle stroke. If I'm not mistaken, PADI says any stroke. I filed a complaint and was told, " he's not allowed to do that. But just go ahead and do it his way."

I did it my way. I changed instructors.

 

[Lead_carrier]

I am not an instructor nor do I pretend to be one so bear with my question.
Does the instructor have to see the actual swim test or do have to simply attest to their students swimming abilities?

OTOH, I doubt Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps would have a problem doing a few laps just to get past the test.

I am signing off on the pool work of my open water student. I must see it. Personally, I am in the water with them just in case. Even though our swim lanes are only 6 feet deep, in a panic a shorter person might not remember to stand up.

 

[Teamcasa]

I am not an instructor nor do I pretend to be one so bear with my question.
Does the instructor have to see the actual swim test or do have to simply attest to their students swimming abilities?

OTOH, I doubt Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps would have a problem doing a few laps just to get past the test.

I am signing off on the pool work of my open water student. I must see it. Personally, I am in the water with them just in case. Even though our swim lanes are only 6 feet deep, in a panic a shorter person might not remember to stand up.

My point and basic question is, does PADI require you, the instructor, to actually witness the swim test or simply attest to the swimmers abilities?

The OP asked "A guy that I work with at the F.D. said that he got certified without having to take a swim test."

Hence my possible solution.