Take only Pictures, Leave only Bubbles

[WaterWolf]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/264986-ethical-practice-wreck-diving-2.html

The thread above got me thinking about people removing things from a wreck. It almost seems that some people think that if it's not attached to the wreck, it's alright to take it. I think what bothers me is the fact that I probably would take a trinket if it wasn't attached but yet I understand the importance of not taking anything so all future divers could enjoy seeing what I might have taken. Shadow Divers and all the talk about china fever comes to mind when I try to justify taking anything. Monkey see, monkey do... If I don't get it, somebody else will. I guess we as divers have to get out of that mindset if we're to preserve these wrecks.


What about salvagers? Some salvage is done for archaeological purposes and I agree with taking some things if they were going to be preserved in a museum for others to see but is it right for someone to take these artifacts to sell to private parties and make a nice living doing so? I think it will be nearly impossible to convince all recreational divers not to take thinks as long as there are private salvagers taking all the booty. How do others feel about this?

WW
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/264986-ethical-practice-wreck-diving-2.html

 

[BradButler01]

There is a huge regional influence on what is accepted behavior on a wreck. In NC, we typically will pick up objects not attached to the wreck. We have NJ divers come down equipped with hammers and crow bars. The norm up there is to pick through every shred of structure for anything of value. People I've worked with in the Caribbean are appalled at either of these stories, as they wouldn't be caught picking up a seashell. As for right or wrong, I think the regional attitude holds the most water. Eventually, wrecks disappear. Picking at them speeds up the process, but allows us to recover memorable artifacts and precious metals. High-traffic wrecks should probably be left alone IMHO, which is likely the root of the prevailing attitude in the tropics.

As for china fever, I have a small collection of cool items from the bottom of the ocean. But there is not a plate, tooth, spoon, cup, port hole, or even ship's bell that is worth my life or yours. I dive for fun, I'm an opportunistic collector. In other words, I won't waste a dive looking for junk, but if I stumble upon it I'll grab it.

 

[Diver0001]

How do others feel about this?

WW

Well..... I think there are three kinds of wreck divers. Ones who dive to see the wreck and ones who dive to see the life that lives on the wreck and "beachcombers"

Personally, I'm the 2nd type. I know for sure I would take something if it were interesting enough but on the whole I'm just happy to explore around (and in) the wreck to see what there is to see. I did take a brass dinner bell with the ship's stamp on it that I found in the kitchen of the Elbe but once we were back onboard one of the guys from the crew wanted it so I let him take it.

The ones who dive to see the wreck are generally like you are. They want to see wrecks preserved and feel sad when they fall apart or get looted/salvaged. In some countries people are "brought up" to want to see wrecks preserved and in other countries they are not. Personally I think they only ones that should be preserved are ones with some kind of archaeological value and ones like the Thistelgorn with a high value to the tourist industry.

The third type of wreck divers, the "beachcombers" don't care about the wreck, they probably don't even see the fishes living on it and they go down with their hammers, crowbars lift bags and whatever to take whatever they can find or pry loose to display in their living rooms... Personally I think displaying junk in ones living room seems a little odd but some people seem to really get their satisfaction from that.

I dont' have any problem diving with any of the above types of wreck divers and I'm perfectly happy to let everyone find their own way. Every wreck eventually disintegrates and it doesn't matter much to me how that happens.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Diver0001... would agree with you.. but might call the "beachcombers" salvage divers.

As a person that has done all three types of dives, there is a place for each of them.

Problem is, some people don't seem to know when or where each one fits.

And you are very right in saying that when removing stuff from a ship, you don't see anything else...

By the way, never used a crow bar or hammer, but a lot of wrenches.

Would never consider removing anything from a wreck that could possibly have any historical significance.. but on a modern wreck...there are some neat things.

 

[mjh]

I think it is very clear; there is salvage/research diving and recreational diving. If you are breaking up a wreck because it is a hazard or salvaging historically significant objects for public institutions, fine. If you are prying objects off a wreck other rec divers visit for your personal collection than you are just ruining a site I might dive and like to see.

 

[IceBergSlim]

I think one problem with this is it is a much more complex issue than can be addressed in a "basic scuba discussion".

Many of the people who are the most militant about not touching anything have never seen a wreck go from "intact" to a smashed debris field in one or two years.

I agree that the common tourist attraction wrecks should remain untouched to provide the best dive to generations of visitors. In most cases those sites were deliberately sunk anyway so keeping them as pristine as possible is a benefit for the local dive industry and tourism in general.

The wrecks that sank due to war, weather or collision are usually in more danger of destruction in a short period of time. The prevailing wisdom is that if the artifacts are not recovered they will be lost forever.

 

[fairybasslet]

I remember the first time I dove the NC wrecks. I was shocked watching people take stuff. Up until then, I had only dove in protected areas, like the wrecks in the Keys. I couldn't bring myself to touch anything, let alone take anything but some sharks teeth I found on the bottom. Someone gave me a tile from some wreck. They told me how to clean it up but I never bothered. I went to someone's home who is an avid NY/NJ wreck diver and he had tons of stuff that he found on wrecks. To me, it's just more stuff to dust when I have to clean my house.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

It depends on the wreck. I would frown on anyone taking things off a wreck that is a tourist site such as the Yukon in San Diego or any of the Caribbean/Florida sites. Most of the wrecks in Los Angeles are derelicts and are usually only visited by those who want to preserve something before it dissolves to sand. The cattle boats aren't going to be taking divers out to a scrap pile. One of my buddies took a spotlight off a wreck one day and I laughed at him. I thought,"this isn't a ship's bell or nice porthole. What could he possibly want with that ugly thing." Well, check out his work.

To see the journey from before to after, check out this link;
Big Turd 2005

While making a cleanup dive in a Sierra lake he recovered an old Ford radiator. It certainly looks better in his house than at the bottom of the lake.

 

[Diver0001]

Wow. Your buddy did a fine job on that light. Very nice work.

R..

 

[WaterWolf]

There is a huge regional influence on what is accepted behavior on a wreck.

I suppose this is true. As I read these posts I can understand that people may think differently about salt water wrecks which will waste away to nothing in no time. Here in the Great Lakes region, the wrecks are well preserved due to the cold dark waters. Some of my favorites are old wooden schooners that have been down there over 150 years. Besides the zebra mussels, they look like they went down last week. I hate to see when someone damages these wrecks especially for personal gain.