DIR- Generic Tdi Normoxic trimix or CCR?

[flymolo]

The diving community's a much calmer place without the likes of GI3's haughty disdain. Zealotry is never a good method of persuasion.

Dude the irony

 

[crofrog]

“Figure out the logistics” doesn’t do a damned thing if you can’t get any helium at all or not quite enough. That’s what we’re trying to convey. Is GUE going to keep beating the drum of standard mixes *at all costs* if divers can’t get enough helium? You want to do a 110ft dive. There’s no helium. Do you do it on nitrox or not at all?

I called Airgas and could get UHP He delivered next week, or picked up tomorrow in Maryland.

If you need HE this is pretty close to you:

Helium Gas - (UHP) Ultra High Purity Grade 99.999+% pure | eBay

This item is a REFILLABLE 49 - water liter cylinder filled with 291 SCF / 8235 liters of 99.999+% pure helium gas. Other cylinders are available - from 50 liters to 5,000 liters. CGA 580 brass valve.

www.ebay.com

This is called "figuring out the logistics" it's a large portion of "technical diving" from what I understand it wasn't that long ago (before I was diving though) that if you wanted to breath trimix you mixed it yourself.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I called Airgas and could get UHP He delivered next week, or picked up tomorrow in Maryland.

If you need HE this is pretty close to you:

Helium Gas - (UHP) Ultra High Purity Grade 99.999+% pure | eBay

This item is a REFILLABLE 49 - water liter cylinder filled with 291 SCF / 8235 liters of 99.999+% pure helium gas. Other cylinders are available - from 50 liters to 5,000 liters. CGA 580 brass valve.

www.ebay.com

This is called "figuring out the logistics" it's a large portion of "technical diving" from what I understand it wasn't that long ago (before I was diving though) that if you wanted to breath trimix you mixed it yourself.


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Seems easier to just go the CCR route, especially if you live in an apartment/condo and have limited space.

Population density/housing has gone up in many places in the country. Next are you going to suggest people to move to where they can afford a house?

While I do plan on setting up a compressor/mixing setup in my garage, I really don't expect the average person to do so. And the only reason I am going to go through all the trouble is to learn how to maintain/repair such prior to opening up my own dive center. You are talking about a regression of services and expect people to be willing to put up with that. The number of people who are is not large.

If you want people to resort to mixing it themselves, then the size of people diving trimix is going to be comparable to what it was when they had no other choice. Brilliant!

 

[tursiops]

I personally know very few people (none actually) who have moved onto CCR diving without first having substantial experience and competence in advanced technical diving.

That was then, when adv tach diving was almost all there was....but this is now, and people have to make different decisions.

 

[PfcAJ]

Seems easier to just go the CCR route, especially if you live in an apartment/condo and have limited space.

Population density/housing has gone up in many places in the country. Next are you going to suggest people to move to where they can afford a house?

While I do plan on setting up a compressor/mixing setup in my garage, I really don't expect the average person to do so. And the only reason I am going to go through all the trouble is to learn how to maintain/repair such prior to opening up my own dive center. You are talking about a regression of services and expect people to be willing to put up with that. The number of people who are is not large.

If you want people to resort to mixing it themselves, then the size of people diving trimix is going to be comparable to what it was when they had no other choice. Brilliant!

Standard gases are slick because you can put in the helium component and then top with 32% and you’ll end up with the standard gas.

Al80, put in 1350psi of helium, top with 32%, bang 18/45.

This ratio works on partially filled bottles too. Al80 at 1500? Easy, put in 675psi of helium and top off with 32. Bing bong 18/45.

A couple HE bottles, some gas to run your booster (double 120s?) and a local shop with nitrox and you’re in bidniss. Helps if you have frands to help spread the cost around. Trust me, you’ll be the coolest cat in town.

 

[Adobo]

Seems easier to just go the CCR route, especially if you live in an apartment/condo and have limited space.

Population density/housing has gone up in many places in the country. Next are you going to suggest people to move to where they can afford a house?

While I do plan on setting up a compressor/mixing setup in my garage, I really don't expect the average person to do so. And the only reason I am going to go through all the trouble is to learn how to maintain/repair such prior to opening up my own dive center. You are talking about a regression of services and expect people to be willing to put up with that. The number of people who are is not large.

If you want people to resort to mixing it themselves, then the size of people diving trimix is going to be comparable to what it was when they had no other choice. Brilliant!

While cost and apartment living may play a role in the calculus of how you approach diving, I suspect it plays zero role in GUE’s analysis of the most sensible way to approach diving. And certainly, the WKPP won’t give a rat’s butt where you live or if you can afford helium. They are intent on doing some very complex dives and getting everyone home safely. So, you know, good luck getting standards changed just because its inconvenient for you.

The good news is that we are all endowed with the right to make our own decisions. Even GUE trained divers go off the reservation when they feel it is appropriate. The standards are the standards. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. If you want to do something different, knock yourself out.

 

[crofrog]

You are talking about a regression of services and expect people to be willing to put up with that. The number of people who are is not large.

Ok and? if you want to do the dives FFIO

If you want people to resort to mixing it themselves, then the size of people diving trimix is going to be comparable to what it was when they had no other choice

Why is this a problem.

I don’t understand the mindset where diving is for everyone, and it makes even less sense applied to technical diving?

 

[elgoog]

You are talking about a regression of services and expect people to be willing to put up with that.

Dive shops not filling helium in OC is a "regression of service" as well, right? We're just differing on which particular regression /reduction/trade-off we're willing to accept based on our circumstances, preferences, whatever.

“Figure out the logistics” doesn’t do a damned thing if you can’t get any helium at all or not quite enough. That’s what we’re trying to convey.

Wait, no helium availability is gonna prevent you from diving CCR where trimix is needed as well, won't it? I mean, one fill of trimix in your CCR tanks will last you a lot longer but you're going to hit a point where you still need a fill. What do you do then? << Legit question - I'm not trying to be snarky or catch anyone out. Hard to convey that in typed words, more so in this thread.

 

[PfcAJ]

And certainly, the WKPP won’t give a rat’s butt where you live or if you can afford helium.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. It would go over like a pregnant pole vaulter.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Dive shops not filling helium in OC is a "regression of service" as well, right? We're just differing on which particular regression /reduction/trade-off we're willing to accept based on our circumstances, preferences, whatever.

Oh absolutely it is a regression of service. For the expeditions we have planned, we have to carry some extra cylinders with our DIL (and O2) that we use transfer whips from 15 L cylinders to our 3L cylinder CCR bottles. We won't have perfect fills with topping off, but good enough for most dives. For the 100 meter plus dives, we do have a dive center that supports trimix/rebreather dives (Kos).

Wait, no helium availability is gonna prevent you from diving CCR where trimix is needed as well, won't it? I mean, one fill of trimix in your CCR tanks will last you a lot longer but you're going to hit a point where you still need a fill. What do you do then? << Legit question - I'm not trying to be snarky or catch anyone out. Hard to convey that in typed words, more so in this thread.

No, your question is one for clarification. If the helium supply continues to dwindle, I'd expect more shops to supply only rebreather divers. They may provide fills for a larger tank that is used to top off. I don't know what's going to happen. If the current trend continues, there will be business changes.

Ok and? if you want to do the dives FFIO

Oh, I've got it figured out. Most will just drop out.

Why is this a problem.

I don’t understand the mindset where diving is for everyone, and it makes even less sense applied to technical diving?

Well, a lot of equipment manufacturers don't see it that way. Want to pay more for gear? That's going to be part of it. Prices are affected by volume.

And if the technical diving market shrinks to that if the mid 90s, it isn't an issue for me personally. I don't ever plan on teaching tech, and I'll be getting my own helium. But I'm looking at the bigger pictures. Maybe GUE will shrink back to just Florida. Shrug.