Teaching prisoners to dive...

[neophyte]

Would you feel better if, as an example, a drug dealer that has derived everything they own from drug dealing got to use those funds for his defense? Or an Extortionist who’s assets are all from illegal activity being able to use them?

Right there, in my opinion, is the problem.

If these funds are being seized and are therefore unavailable to be used for their DEFENSE, they've been seized PRIOR to a conviction.

When our government (at any level) is able to seize a person's assets BEFORE they've been convicted of any crime, that's a major problem.

When this siezure makes this INNOCENT (since they've yet to be found guilty and are to be considered innocent up until that point) person more likely to be found guilty by not allowing them to put together a defense as good as they would've otherwise been able, the problem is compounded.

I will agree that they can keep money they can prove that was earned from legitimate means. Other than that, seize it.
Gary D.

I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that, at least in most cases, proving the money "was earned from legitimate means" involves instigating a civil suit against the jurisdiction which has siezed your assets.

This involves a higher standard of proof than the "reasonable doubt" involved in defending yourself against a criminal charge. You are not entitled to a public defender either, yet are still without assets.

Travesty of justice is not too strong a phrase.

So there're my couple of cents anyway...

 

[wallacm]

awsome if i ever get locked up im gonna try to get a transfer to chino

 

[Sam Miller III]

Thanks for putting this thread back on track, Sam.

____________________________________________________________

An absolute total waste of my time and energy,

To quote EAP "Never more sayeth the raven never more..."

sdm

 

[suthnbelle]

It wasn't a waste Sam. I really enjoyed your post and learned something new and very interesting. It would be interesting to get an update regarding their dive program to date.

*****Mod Post******​

How about the rest of you keeping this thread on topic and not hijacking it with other discussions.

Thanks.

 

[Wayward Son]

You may not have gotten through to those you wanted to, but a bunch of people quite likley now know some things that they didn't.

Is that a waste?

 

[DallasNewbie]

I could point out the relevant sections of law, but that would take too long. Here is the DL handbook issued by the state which confirms what I've been saying in regards to penalties.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf

Could you be refering to this:

H. DRIVING WHILE LICENSE SUSPENDED
The penalties for driving a motor vehicle while your driver license or driving
privilege is suspended, canceled, denied, or revoked are:
1. a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $500.00; and
2. confinement in jail for a term of not less than 72 hours or more than 6
months; and
3. suspension of your driver license or driving privilege will be automatically
extended upon the licensee being convicted of operating a motor
vehicle while suspended, canceled, or revoked; such extended period of
suspension will be for a like period of time as the original suspension.
4. A subsequent conviction is a Class A misdemeanor.

A suspended license is very different than an expired license. And a second offense is much different than an inadvertant first. There are plenty of stupid laws, and people in jail for stupud reasons. This isn't one of them. If you are going to assert what the law is, please try to be accurate.


And to be a bit more on topic, I think this is an exellent skill to teach to inmates. It's probably something that has a greater demand than supply, since most people (Scubaboard members notwithstanding) would not be likely to go near the industry with a ten foot pole. It sounds like the prisoners are going the extra mile, and are very motivated. However, I don't think the value of the program means that prisoners shouldn't be expected to pay for the education. They could be given loans that must be repaid upon obtaining work in the industry. Subsidize the loans and give a very low (or zero) interest rate. I believe that the earlier statement was made in jest, but there is a real risk associated with any program that appears to be rewarding prisoners.

 

[neophyte]

____________________________________________________________

An absolute total waste of my time and energy,

To quote EAP "Never more sayeth the raven never more..."

sdm

As one who may've made it appear a waste, I'd like to make sure you know it wasn't.

You posted while I was typing mine (my three month old son was in my lap, leading me to type very, very slowly), though I subsequently went back and read yours with great interest.

I'm even more convinced than ever that this is a tough and extremely worthwhile program that seems, by design, to benefit only those most likely to make the most of it. It works out well that, in the end, that benefits all of us.

For several years I worked in a very physically demanding job (that had nothing to do with diving) where ex-cons and parolees were quite likely to be hired as long as they were physically capable.

Many took their first lunch break and never came back. Some turned out to be long-term, exceptional assets to the company and one is currently a manager. I'm sure that ratio could've been heavily skewed toward the positive had more of them been able to avail themselves of vocational training like that being discussed here.

I, for one, appreciate your involvement in helping people who might otherwise be, right this second, harming themselves and/or others instead lead productive lives.

I also appreciate your taking the time to give us all the benefit of your first hand knowledge.

Thanks.

 

[Wilson]

Not a waste, Sam- thanks for your efforts! I'm going to pass this info on to divers in my community.

 

[robway034]

I'm all for convicts serving their time in a cell, dining on bread and water, thinking about their crime and reading a good book. I'd rather tax $$$ be spent providing job training for non-lawbreakers that can't afford to pay for their own training

You've make a good point! It would seem that if these guys/gals had access, to thetraining/oppourtunity in the first place, then maybe they wouldnt have wound up in Chino! On the other hand, it does seem counter productive to deny them training if it will head them on the right path.., right?

 

[badmrchris]

A few years back I worked in a halfway house, where certain federal inmates spend the last bit of their sentence. Two of my clients were actually in this program back in the 70’s and told me all about it. I called BS until I read their jackets. While in this program, one of them (we’ll call him Steve) actually learned some underwater demolition and upon his release managed to get the certification allowing him to use explosives. He was working in this field for a year or so until the state found out, and of course they put an immediate stop to it.

A couple months later, Steve robs a bank and gets caught. While the cops are searching his house they found a whole bunch of explosives, as well as his plans on using them in a not so legal matter, if you get my drift. So he goes back to prison.

Steve spends the next 20+ years in and out of prison, but was always able to find commercial diving work between his stints until the mid 90’s when he went deaf by it. So, he robbed another bank, served most of his time and that’s when he wound up with me.

No real point to this story I guess, I just always found it funny that in this instance the State of California facilitated the procurement of explosive materials for a convicted felon.