Thailand, impact of the political situation

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With all due respect, Vie, I do not think that the issues that Thais are worried about are unimportant or trivial compared to my holiday plans. From what I understand from what I have read, they are very important and need to be resolved for a host of reasons. However, I do not think it appropriate that the country be shut off in this fashion as a means to an end, given the flighty and ambiguous political cause we seem to have in this case. There are ways to affect change that are productive, and there are ways that are not productive. I feel these actions are not productive.

I’m a big fan of Martin Luther King Junior, as well as his inspirational mentor, Gandhi. The work they have both done in promoting non-violent protest is to be commended for its scope even in 2008. I agree that there can be a productive type of tension produced in society and that it can be a tool for real change.

But there is more to it than mere non-violence (assuming that this action at the airports can be called non-violent). King Jr. and Gandhi both understood that the non-violence had to specifically target those systems and people that infringed on civil liberties, thus robbing those systems and people of their livelihood and legitimacy in various ways (sit-ins, marches, boycotts, etc.). This opened up the door for others to join in if they saw fit. This aspect is very important.

If the action unfairly targets others, or if the action becomes more important than the cause itself, the message could get lost in the fray, just as it has here. Both men warned that it was not only inappropriate and counter-productive to use non-violence without measuring the timing and the application of that non-violence, but that recklessly applying non-violence would ultimately fail.

Taking King Jr.’s bus boycott as an example, his message would have been lost had large crowds of people taken over bus stations as opposed to simply calling on people not to ride the bus. Had protesters blocked entrance to coffee shops as opposed to having a few members peacefully sit-in and simply order coffee, the message would have been lost. Therein lies the fundamental difference.

By taking the airports in this fashion, the entire message gets lost in the din of frustrations felt by others not in a position to do anything for the change desired. In fact, targeting the airports like this insures that the impact is scattered and not well thought out. It also removes objective observers as witnesses to the process because they are either stuck outside the country or desperately trying to get away by some other means.

You say that my economic considerations are a “loss of perspective”. I disagree. I think the loss is yours in this case. You may be able to turn a blind eye to your business losses and eat them long enough to stay afloat. I’m happy that you have that station in this crisis. But my friend who makes my suits is a man constantly looking for sales. He works very hard and I respect him for that. He needs his regular customers to keep him afloat, and he also needs to keep his walk-in business going as well. I imagine that this is even more true given the recession we are now “officially” in. I’ve referred him to many people and I planned to take some of his swatches back to three new customers here in China as well. This is outside the business I was planning to give him myself.

I understand that you would prefer people like me be respectful of the real issues for real Thais. Perhaps I could do that a bit more in this case. However, I am not a good enough person to be able to completely dislodge my frustration with this mess from my hope for a better life for Thais in the future, especially since I feel this action is way off the mark and stupidly planned (if planned at all). I wish I could be that resolute, but I am not. I suppose you could say that other foreigners understand this inherently where I fail. To be honest, I think a lot more people living outside Thailand (and maybe inside as well) think as I do, which does not bode well for my tailor friend in Bangkok, as well as many other businesses who will be left to remake Thailand’s image when the protesters leave or are forced to leave.

Now I am definitely in the political sphere. I’ll stop here.

Cheers!
 
However, I do not think it appropriate that the country be shut off in this fashion as a means to an end, given the flighty and ambiguous political cause we seem to have in this case. There are ways to affect change that are productive, and there are ways that are not productive. I feel these actions are not productive.

Yes. Agreed.

IÃÎ a big fan of Martin Luther King Junior, as well as his inspirational mentor, Gandhi. The work they have both done in promoting non-violent protest is to be commended for its scope even in 2008. I agree that there can be a productive type of tension produced in society and that it can be a tool for real change.

But there is more to it than mere non-violence (assuming that this action at the airports can be called non-violent). King Jr. and Gandhi both understood that the non-violence had to specifically target those systems and people that infringed on civil liberties, thus robbing those systems and people of their livelihood and legitimacy in various ways (sit-ins, marches, boycotts, etc.). This opened up the door for others to join in if they saw fit. This aspect is very important.

If the action unfairly targets others, or if the action becomes more important than the cause itself, the message could get lost in the fray, just as it has here. Both men warned that it was not only inappropriate and counter-productive to use non-violence without measuring the timing and the application of that non-violence, but that recklessly applying non-violence would ultimately fail.

Taking King Jr.ÃÔ bus boycott as an example, his message would have been lost had large crowds of people taken over bus stations as opposed to simply calling on people not to ride the bus. Had protesters blocked entrance to coffee shops as opposed to having a few members peacefully sit-in and simply order coffee, the message would have been lost. Therein lies the fundamental difference.

By taking the airports in this fashion, the entire message gets lost in the din of frustrations felt by others not in a position to do anything for the change desired. In fact, targeting the airports like this insures that the impact is scattered and not well thought out. It also removes objective observers as witnesses to the process because they are either stuck outside the country or desperately trying to get away by some other means.

Yes, very true. I personally don't think that what the PAD is doing constitutes a non-violent protest.

Otoh (and I don't want to go off on a tangent on this too much), the Mahatma's achievements through non-violence have to be seen within the context of the actions (and even cooperation/aid) of others like Nehru, Jinnah, the Mountbattens and the Raj/British government. Martin Luther King's achievements also have to be seen within the context of the entire African-American Civil Rights Movement (race riots and "Black Power" movements included). My point is that these "civil disobedience" or "non-violent" protests are never as "non-violent" as their champions make them out to be and the leaders of these movements are never as disconnected from the "authorities/ruling power" as they make themselves out to be.

You say that my economic considerations are a ÅÍoss of perspective? I disagree. I think the loss is yours in this case. You may be able to turn a blind eye to your business losses and eat them long enough to stay afloat. IÃÎ happy that you have that station in this crisis. But my friend who makes my suits is a man constantly looking for sales. He works very hard and I respect him for that. He needs his regular customers to keep him afloat, and he also needs to keep his walk-in business going as well. I imagine that this is even more true given the recession we are now ÅÐfficially in. IÃ×e referred him to many people and I planned to take some of his swatches back to three new customers here in China as well. This is outside the business I was planning to give him myself.

Simplistic. Yes, I (and many like me) will have to "eat [my business losses] long enough to stay afloat." I (we) really have no choice. This does not mean that myself and the so many affected do not need to "constantly [look] for sales" or do not need "regular customers to keep afloat." It's the people who can "turn a blind eye to... business losses" that caused this whole mess in the first place.

I understand that you would prefer people like me be respectful of the real issues for real Thais. Perhaps I could do that a bit more in this case. However, I am not a good enough person to be able to completely dislodge my frustration with this mess from my hope for a better life for Thais in the future, especially since I feel this action is way off the mark and stupidly planned (if planned at all). I wish I could be that resolute, but I am not. I suppose you could say that other foreigners understand this inherently where I fail. To be honest, I think a lot more people living outside Thailand (and maybe inside as well) think as I do, which does not bode well for my tailor friend in Bangkok, as well as many other businesses who will be left to remake ThailandÃÔ image when the protesters leave or are forced to leave.

I understand your feelings. I think most of us here would like to see a quick end and resolution to all this as well as those living outside of Thailand. The sooner all this is finished, and we can all pitch in to pick up the pieces, the better.
 
With the possible exception of King's and Gandhi's right to see themselves as separate from larger movements not operating under their tenets, I am in agreement with your excellent points. And with that, it is time not to hijack this thread any further. In the end we both want the same thing for ourselves (divers & business people) and for the Thai people.

Despite our differences in expressing our feelings on this issue (I am disgruntled and thus more emotional than I might be otherwise), I think we have more in common than not.

I can most definitely leave it at that with the hope that our combined e-plea for calmer heads doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Cheers!
 
Aside from the political situation here, everything is normal, Malls are crowded people go about their business as usual and Diving is as good as ever. I just went on a Diving trip last weekend and the boat is full with Tourists and locals. The only problem is getting here and leaving due to the temporary Airport capacity.

So if you don't mind the mess just come, its still a good place for holiday.
 
This just in...

From the Nation newspaper:

"The People's Alliance for Democracy Tuesday agreed in principle to cooperate with the Airports of Thailand Plc to reopen services at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport but the PAD will not end its demonstration there.

The agreement was announced at 3:30 pm by Somkiart Pongpaibool, a PAD leader and Vudhibhandhu Vichairatana, chairman of the AOT board of directors, following their meeting.

Somkiart announced that the PAD would allow flights to resume at the Bangkok international airport after AOT technical officials check technical readiness of all systems.

He said a joint committee between the PAD and AOT board would inspect assets in the airport and would open gateways for passengers to use the airports for arrival and departures.


Somkiart said the PAD would allocate a zone for its demonstration to continue without affecting the passengers.

Vudhibhandhu said the board would cooperate with the PAD to check the readiness of the systems and would try to resume services within 24 hours.

He said the AOT board would try to make the systems of the airport ready in line with international standard."

PAD agrees with AOT to resume services at Suvarnabhumi, but rally to continue - Nationmultimedia.com

Bangkok Post | Breaking news | PPP dissolved
 
That is very good news indeed! Cheers for posting that.
 
AIRPORT CRISIS
Suvarnabhumi airport to remain closed until at least Dec 15 : AOT


By The Nation




Suvarnabhumi International Airport will remain closed to passenger flights until at least Dec 15 due to the disruption caused by anti-government protesters.






Airports Authority of Thailand's acting director Serirat Prasutanont said that the country's main airport has lost more Bt350 million due to the closure of the protesters.
But the airport allowed the cargo flights to land on Tuesday, the first flights were expected to arrive later the day.
People's Alliance for Democracy has led anti-government protesters to seize the airport since last week.
The extension of the suspension for passenger flights is made although AOT and PAD met on Tuesday and agreed that the airport will resume its service as soon as technical officials examined functional and operational system,.
The panel set up to solve the airport crisis is attended by PAD's co-leader Somkiart Pongpaiboon, AOT's president Wutthipun Wichairat and AOT's advisor to the president ACM Kittisak Ratprasert.
Somkiat said that the meeting agreed that all flights in and out the airport will be resumed as normal. PAD which has seized the airport since last week will divide channels and space for passengers from the protesters.
The panel will examine assets inside and outside the airport to check if there was any damage before returning the areas to AOT.
Somkiat said he could not say for now when officially the airport will resume the service because he has to talk with other PAD's co-leaders.
Meanwhile Wutthipun said that AOT will jointly inspect the readiness of the airport with PAD as soon as possible.
"I think that Suvarnabhumi Airport will be able to be re-opened within 24 hours," he said. Referring to checkpoints set up by PAD at the entrances of the airport, AOT and PAD will jointly conduct the screening of passengers into the airport.
"First priority of the work is to clean all the passengers' buildings and to remove tones of garbages from the areas," he said.
Meanwhile an informed source said AOT told PAD that the airport should be resumed the service on December 3.
 
First I'd like to say sorry for posting comments from some hothead I'd spoken to that day (Tsunami stuff). In future I'll keep comments to my own views.

Impact; fewer customers and current customers cutting their diving short to save on money to pay for alternative ways to get home. One positive outcome, some non budget tourists stayed on an extra week and decided to take open water classes with their spare time, so there are those out there with a positive attitude, but these are folk who can afford to sit it out at 5 star level.
 
The quote below is from the Bangkok Post regarding the Airport closure:
However, it was unlikely the process would be quick, because staff would have to go through complicated and stringent checks, make repairs if needed and get re-certification, he said.


"Even the complex IT systems at the two airports will have to be rebooted and calibrated, just like when you start-up a new airport," he said.


Ground handling equipment and other support facilities which were moved out from Suvarnabhumi to U-tapao airport would also have to be moved back to Suvarnabhumi.


"It could take days, weeks or even months, only God knows how long," a frustrated Mr Serirat said.


I also read that:1) The Constitutional Court found Fraud in the December 2007 Election and Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and the PPP party have been removed from Government and 2) the Airport will not open until December 15.

This does not baud well for Thailand. With the World Economic crisis, tourism is already down, Western Governments are warning Citizens about travel to Thailand and common sense calls out to divers to travel to other locations.
Nevertheless, not heeding common sense and knowing outside of Bangkok, business is as usual (except for a loss of tourists), my plans have not changed. For the past 7 years, I have visited and dove in Thailand. It is one of the most interesting and accomodating places on Earth. The diving is great and the price can't be beat. Unfortunately Thai Politics doesn't always match the attitude of the People.
It sounds like big problems and issues are on the horizon for Thailand, however I have faith in the resiliency of the Thai people and possibly an unwarranted confidence that they will work thru their differences without the need for any further disruption of the Tourist trade which is such a big part of the Thai economy.
 
From the Nation:

"Airports of Thailand Plc Acting President Serirat Prasutanond said Wednesday commercial flights may be resumed at the Suvarnabhumi International Airport at noon on Friday although it will take at least a week before the airport could resume full operations.

Serirat said passengers would still be required to check in at Bitec exhibition centre on Friday but the first passenger flight could be resumed at the Suvarnabhumi Airport at noon Friday.

He said all the systems would have to be checked before the airport could resume the full opertions.

The checking would be completed in one week at the soonest or would take no more than two weeks, he said."

AOT chief says commercial flights from Suvarnabhumi to resume Friday noon - Nationmultimedia.com
 

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