Thank heavens for PADI

[Allen42]

sheck33 once bubbled...
... Right now i have my hands full trying to get my GF to unlearn all the PADI BS that was stuffed into her head. ...

What, specifically, do you recommend people unlearn?
There a several things that have been oversimplified or made absolute for the sake of teaching, but off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in the curriculum that is just plain wrong.

It seems to me that most of PADI's "errors" are those of ommission, but I'm certainly open on this. What'd you have in mind?

 

[sheck33]

Allen42 once bubbled...
gedunk,

I can't think of any agency or human that claims they can turn anyone into an expert scuba diver in any length of time, let alone one weekend. Overstatements and generalizations such as this are what helps undermine someone's online credibility.

As far as claiming that your reason for making such a statemrnt is because you're hard-core GUE/DIR, well... pleae explain that, I'm not sure how to interpret that.

i made the, deliberate, overstatement of 'expert' diver. and i dont think gedunk claimed to be hardcore GUE/DIR, he merely pointed out that he thinks i am hardcore GUE/DIR

 

[MikeFerrara]

ScoobyDave once bubbled...
Mike et. al., I'm curious if this fits from your vantage: I've found for myself that anytime I move from something I'm really passionate about into the leadership or business side of it, much of what I'm passionate about gets tainted. In other words, the business or leadership takes on a life of its own and gets in the way of enjoying my passion.

That's part of what's behind my earlier posts of seperating business and pleasure.

It's something you need to be care ful of or you could end up hating something you really enjoy. Last year I started making sure that I had a weekend a month to myself and my own diving. Recently I was ready to walk away from the whole thing including my own diving. I decided to head to Florida and spend a week in the caves to see if I could enjoy diving again. I did.

 

[Allen42]

sheck33 once bubbled...


i made the, deliberate, overstatement of 'expert' diver. and i dont think gedunk claimed to be hardcore GUE/DIR, he merely pointed out that he thinks i am hardcore GUE/DIR

Sorry, I didn't notice that gedunk had responded on your behalf, and I mistakenly thought he made the original post. What was your purpose in make the "expert" diver overstatement, since it qualifies the rest of the statement?

 

[Tropics Diver]

sheck33 once bubbled...
if you want to learn how to dive rather than be an environment wrecking underwater tourist i'd suggest you definitely stay away from PADI as a training agency and stay away from any other agency claiming to turn you into an expert diver in 1 weekend with the minimum amount of effort.

if you are really dedicated and want to become a proficient diver i recommend taking some GUE classes.

Last time I checked, GUE doesn't offer OW classes.

Which agency do you recommend for initial training?

 

[MikeFerrara]

conchnclyde once bubbled...

This makes me wonder exactly what are we being taught, if an instructor like Mr. Ferrara comes to the realization that he does not know how to dive. From a "newbie" stand point, I dont even quite understand what that really means. Sounds like most of us are taught the basic survival skills to exist on life support, while getting experience to question our own skills and abilities, which drive some, hopefully many, to pursue more training, which in turn becomes business for the industry. My main focus being on "dive education/training".

My question would be to Mr. Ferrara, or anyone else who would like to respond; " when you realized that you did not know how to dive, what would you recommend to us "newbies" to understand how not to follow that path? or is it like many sports, where practice makes perfect, and drives those who are driven, to excel, therefore being hungry to learn/educate ones self further.

In many classes these days student are made to do the very minimum to, sort of, meet the wording in the standards. The standards say you must swim 30 yrds neutral so that's what they have you do. The standards say you have to hover for a minute, that's what they have you do (even if it's upside down). The standards say that you have to share air, breath a free flow and clear a mask, so they have you do it all while kneeling on the bottom. All that is useless if you stop there. When we have to do any of those things on a diver we need to do it midwater while maintaining depth and staying with out buddy. Most classes never mention trim. Staying horizontal while clearing a mask is what makes it easy to maintain depth. The buddy system itself...how many classes excersize and evaluate you ability to be aware of, stay with and communicate with a buddy. This is especially importand on ascents and descents. That's when trouble happens and that's when you need to be prepared to assist you buddy and that's when you want him to be prepared to assist you. These are just a few examples but I'll stop here.

As far as the how to...first of all do some homework and research in picking an instructor. Before some one else mentions it again the GUE DIRF is a good class. There are other instructors but I dont know how to tell you to find them. oops...gotta go,

Later

 

[sheck33]

Allen42 once bubbled...
What, specifically, do you recommend people unlearn?
There a several things that have been oversimplified or made absolute for the sake of teaching, but off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in the curriculum that is just plain wrong.

It seems to me that most of PADI's "errors" are those of ommission, but I'm certainly open on this. What'd you have in mind?

you are right in saying that most of PADI's problem is ommission.
a few things to unlearn are:

vertical bodyposition
ascent procedure
turning tankvalve back 1/2 or 1 turn
be back at boat with 500 psi nonsense
ankle weights
using suit for bouyancy
'having to much weight is ok'

 

[TCDiver1]

sheck33 once bubbled...


i made the, deliberate, overstatement of 'expert' diver. and i dont think gedunk claimed to be hardcore GUE/DIR, he merely pointed out that he thinks i am hardcore GUE/DIR

Thx for clearing that up sheck. I certainly respect your opinion, i even agree with part of it. I just don't see it as black and white as you and others do.

GUE is a great option for what they do teach but its not the only good option IMO.

 

[Allen42]

sheck33 once bubbled...


you are right in saying that most of PADI's problem is ommission.
a few things to unlearn are:

vertical bodyposition
ascent procedure
turning tankvalve back 1/2 or 1 turn
be back at boat with 500 psi nonsense
ankle weights
using suit for bouyancy
'having to much weight is ok'

Ok, first, I'll admit that I don't have a manual in front of me, but I can't remember being taught any of these things.

However, here's a few comments:

Vertical body position: True, the whole concept of streamlined trim is merely touched upon in the OW book, and usually not bothered with in the water. I'd still call this omission.

Ascent procedure: referring to what "problem"?

Turning back the valve 1/4 to 1/2 I think is what they recommend, and I'd have to concur. (At least back off of "locked" open.)

500 psi @ boat: not taught as a rule, but I believe that it's the standard for conducting classes. Problem?

Ankle wieghts: Not discussed in OW class that I'm aware of.

Suit for bouyancy: I assume you mean in the drysuit specialty class... haven't taken it, so don't know. But it seems there are two schools of thught on this prcatice, both with seasoned experts behind them.

Too much weight is ok: Well, within reason, it certainly is "OK", as a little too much is much better than a little to little, IMO. However, they very carefully teach how to properly weight. However, many instructors prefer to sink the student to the platform so they don't go floating away. So this is a human problem, not a PADI curriculum problem.

Right?

 

[MikeFerrara]

sheck33 once bubbled...


you are right in saying that most of PADI's problem is ommission.
a few things to unlearn are:

vertical bodyposition
ascent procedure
turning tankvalve back 1/2 or 1 turn
be back at boat with 500 psi nonsense
ankle weights
using suit for bouyancy
'having to much weight is ok'

PADI doesn't teach divers to over weight. That's from instructors who think it's a shortcut. PADI should catch em and boot them out though.

They no longer recomment turning the valve back 1/4 turn.

It's divemasters who tell you to be back on the boat with 500 psi. PADI never said such a thing. The book recommends ending the dive with 3 to 6 hundred psi on the tank. That's to avoid draining the tank and getting water in it. It's isn't for gas management purposes.

If we're going to jump on an agency lets do it for what their really not doing or doing wrong.