The continuing sagas of the Blue Heron Bridge

[danvolker]

I was thinking more of those who confront others in the parking lot.

You do not need to pretend to like anyone, and if your bouyancy control wavers and you bounce off the bottom near collectors, or demonstrate "new diver" mistakes near collectors, oh well...

I forsee problems for well intentioned people who confront others above water in the mistaken belief that collectors are violating the law, when in fact, there does not seem to be any law.

Your right of course. We have some "evolution" to involve ourselves with, over the next year

 

[dumpsterDiver]

....My point was, the agency does not involve itself with enough real science to make me feel that they are on the right road by calling this an invasive species that needs to be removed--this could be code for allowing commercial fisherman to rape and pillage a species with good monetary value. Or, maybe it really is a bad species--if so, how about an informational campaign with good scientific references, and peer review? At least then, WE could read the studies and research articles, critique them, and decide if this is good science or bad and mis-used science.

I don't know enough about "the agency" or the exotic grouper to provide a specific comment..

However in general, it seems that if a government agency pursued the policy of "wait and see" toward the introduction of exotic species while they attempted to study the ecological ramifications of the introduction, by the time they documented that there was a problem, it is probably too late to do anything about it.

Why were they using nets? If the intent was elimination of that single specimen (on Sunday), I can think of more effective implements than a bunch of plastic bags and a tickle stick.

 

[fisheyeview]

****POINT OF CLARIFICATION***​

The Panther Grouper is not indigenous to the Atlantic Ocean. It is an Indo-Pacific species that was more than likely dumped by an aquarium owner that no longer wanted to feed and maintain it.

The organization REEF, and the USCG, actively attempt to remove non-indigenous species from the waters as the impact of these species (that usually do not have natural predators in these waters) can be quite harmful to the indigenous species.

 

[danvolker]

****POINT OF CLARIFICATION***​

The Panther Grouper is not indigenous to the Atlantic Ocean. It is an Indo-Pacific species that was more than likely dumped by an aquarium owner that no longer wanted to feed and maintain it.

The organization REEF, and the USCG, actively attempt to remove non-indigenous species from the waters as the impact of these species (that usually do not have natural predators in these waters) can be quite harmful to the indigenous species.

That is great to know...However, I still would like to know how it is that "any" grouper species, could be so dis-similar to the indigenous groupers of this area, that they would have no natural predators. If they are replacing the grey or gag groupers, they are replacing a gropuper species that had predators--so what would prevent these predators from going after the Panther groupers? They don't have the huge catastrophically fatal spine defenses of the Lionfish to prevent predators from eating them...so exactly how can they be so secure in our ecosystem?
Anyone know a marine biologist or someone who would know this?

 

[fisheyeview]

That is great to know...However, I still would like to know how it is that "any" grouper species, could be so dis-similar to the indigenous groupers of this area, that they would have no natural predators. If they are replacing the grey or gag groupers, they are replacing a gropuper species that had predators--so what would prevent these predators from going after the Panther groupers? They don't have the huge catastrophically fatal spine defenses of the Lionfish to prevent predators from eating them...so exactly how can they be so secure in our ecosystem?
Anyone know a marine biologist or someone who would know this?

Sounds like a good question for REEF. Shooting them an email now.

 

[Scubarus66]

Mystery solved.

My buddy and I spoke with this group. When we informed them that collecting was not allowed, the non-diver in the group gave me us her business card. She is Pamela J. Schofield, USGS Gainesville office, pschofield@usgs.gov, 352-264-3530, SESC - Ecophysiology Research.

Ms. Schofield said they were there to get the Panther Grouper and have State and County permits to collect. She then backtracked and said she had "talked to the County". I asked if they got the grouper but didn't get an answer.

It was obvious that they did not appreciate the questioning. No apologies from me though. If divers don't police each other, there won't be anything left to enjoy.

I don't understand why everyone's wetsuit is up there backside... I reported the Panther Grouper to whom I needed to report it to, USGS and REEF... This group is trying to catch it, not kill the fish... I'm glad that we have a source that can respond to the matter at hand. It's a Panther Grouper with the picture I provided and the location of where I took the picture. I was told when they went looking for the Panther Grouper that he was in the same area.... The collectors are I think showing up at the times when their aren't going to be any divers in the water, (low tides)......

 

[danvolker]

I don't understand why everyone's wetsuit is up there backside... I reported the Panther Grouper to whom I needed to report it to, USGS and REEF... This group is trying to catch it, not kill the fish... I'm glad that we have a source that can respond to the matter at hand. It's a Panther Grouper with the picture I provided and the location of where I took the picture. I was told when they went looking for the Panther Grouper that he was in the same area.... The collectors are I think showing up at the times when their aren't going to be any divers in the water, (low tides)......

I just tried googling the Panther Grouper...little more than this comes up
Reef Protection International - Reef Fish Guide ( most sites just show name and that it is an invasive species).

So here we are, in a universe where massive depopulations of species have been allowed by marine fishery managers, and the fish populations we see today are NOTHING like what they were in the 60's and 70's....From the old timers, I know that their used to be large populations of Jewfish right up to beyond the BHB, and in the 70's when I first began diving the inlet, there was more biomass of grouper in the inlet at any given minute, than all the fish together at the BHB today.

So why the big rush to remove a species that is potentially going to fill in some of the damage that commercial fishing has done to our area? We need species to fill in the ecosystem where species used to exist, but no longer do.

Why should we ASSUME that the agencies involved know the real benefit or threat involved with the Panther Grouper? If they do, I'd like to know this risk and everything about it soon. If they force some of us to do our own research--to contact professors at universities we know, this has the potential to create a nasty fallout if the opinions on the threat levels are significantly different.

This is common sense. No one can just blindly accept the destruction/removal behavior without good explanations and at least some science or logic behind it....Just because a fish is labled an invasive species, is NOT a good reason, particularly when the species that were supposed to be present have been long since wiped out, and there is no reasonable chance or them returning.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I just tried googling the Panther Grouper...little more than this comes up
Reef Protection International - Reef Fish Guide ( most sites just show name and that it is an invasive species).

So here we are, in a universe where massive depopulations of species have been allowed by marine fishery managers, and the fish populations we see today are NOTHING like what they were in the 60's and 70's....From the old timers, I know that their used to be large populations of Jewfish right up to beyond the BHB, and in the 70's when I first began diving the inlet, there was more biomass of grouper in the inlet at any given minute, than all the fish together at the BHB today.

So why the big rush to remove a species that is potentially going to fill in some of the damage that commercial fishing has done to our area? We need species to fill in the ecosystem where species used to exist, but no longer do.

Why should we ASSUME that the agencies involved know the real benefit or threat involved with the Panther Grouper? If they do, I'd like to know this risk and everything about it soon. If they force some of us to do our own research--to contact professors at universities we know, this has the potential to create a nasty fallout if the opinions on the threat levels are significantly different.

This is common sense. No one can just blindly accept the destruction/removal behavior without good explanations and at least some science or logic behind it....Just because a fish is labled an invasive species, is NOT a good reason, particularly when the species that were supposed to be present have been long since wiped out, and there is no reasonable chance or them returning.

Fess up Dan.. you released this little bugger didn't you?

 

[diverdad87]

Your really nothing but a instigator aren't you DD? Your pissed a group of divers are wanting to protect your sacred collect grounds and now your off to piss as man folks off as you can before your activities become illegal. Why don't YOU admit THAT?

Better yet, why not provide your true identity and we can all get together at the picnic tables at the park and discuss this as adults?

 

[mntlblok]

"Panther Grouper" is a really cool name.

Kevin