the great 109 to 156 (using the new S-wing) and "lever" issues threads (continued)

[Couv]

In the title of this thread it says it's (continued). Continued from where? I would like to read it from the start. I have two 109's. That's all I know about them. One of them just came back from servicing and on the report the tech wrote that the 2nd stage was obsolete and was updated to use modern parts. What exactly is he talking about. I guessing he updated it to 156 status? Anyway, to read all there is to read about the 109 sure would be nice.

Hi ZWF,

It's not clear what your LDS meant. If he serviced your 109 then probably he simply upgraded the poppet, seat, and possibly the lever. Alternatively, he may have upgraded it to a balanced poppet. Both these upgrades are worthwhile and bring your classic 109 to a level equal to or better than any plastic-fantastic made today.

On the other hand, if he did not return your 109 and sold you a replacement second stage, get your regulator back and never set foot in that shop again.

Re: the continued issue-well, there have been numerous threads that began as one subject and transmogrified into a discussion about poppets, levers, seats etc and you can spend a lot of time sorting through them all; but save yourself a lot of time and frustration by going to Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose -->Manuals & Catalogs -->continue-->BLPEN163-->page 2 then scroll to the bottom and download the PDF file "ScubaPro poppet changes." The info in that file will pretty much answer most of the questions you may have about the upgrade.

I'm interested to know if he returned your old parts, what they are, and how much did he charge.

 

[ZuluWhiskeyFox]

Hi ZWF,

It's not clear what your LDS meant. If he serviced your 109 then probably he simply upgraded the poppet, seat, and possibly the lever. Alternatively, he may have upgraded it to a balanced poppet. Both these upgrades are worthwhile and bring your classic 109 to a level equal to or better than any plastic-fantastic made today.

On the other hand, if he did not return your 109 and sold you a replacement second stage, get your regulator back and never set foot in that shop again.

Re: the continued issue-well, there have been numerous threads that began as one subject and transmogrified into a discussion about poppets, levers, seats etc and you can spend a lot of time sorting through them all; but save yourself a lot of time and frustration by going to Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose -->Manuals & Catalogs -->continue-->BLPEN163-->page 2 then scroll to the bottom and download the PDF file "ScubaPro poppet changes." The info in that file will pretty much answer most of the questions you may have about the upgrade.

I'm interested to know if he returned your old parts, what they are, and how much did he charge.

Thank you for your reply. The LDS did not try to sell me on something new. Thankfully I have read enough to know that my 35 year old 109 still rivals anything being made today. The first shop I went into just lately about getting this old girl serviced laughed at me and was all set to sell me an entirely new reg. I said no thank you. I don't know if it's still an unbalance or if it's now a balanced. Either way it works very well as it is. I brought the entire reg (1st and 2nd stage) in for serviceing. The MK-V got all new orings and filter disc and a few other little odds and ends replaced. The 109 from what I can gather by the old parts got a new poppet and spring. The poppet that came out is the shorter style without the long stem. It looks a little different than any of the previously posted pics. Where it's different is at the seat. I took a pic of the old one. If I figure out how to attach the pic I will.
I will look up those manuals you mention above.

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[Couv]

You can thank Master Luis H for this tip:

To determine if you have a balanced or unbalanced poppet installed, remove the hose and shine a flashlight into the second stage barrel. If you can see a hole in the seat it is balanced. Conversely, no hole means unbalanced.

 

[halocline]

If the bag of returned parts contains a big spring, the tech probably converted it to balanced; I don't think the old unbalanced spring is still available, but I'm not sure. To convert it to balanced, the tech would have replaced the poppet with the s-wing poppet, the spring with a much smaller spring, and added a balance chamber. Maybe $30 in parts?

I like these regs balanced, to me they breathe a little smoother (not much) but they do hold a tune longer IME. The other side of that coin is that the unbalanced poppet can use homemade seats that cost just about zero, so replacing one frequently is no big deal if you do it yourself.

 

[OkByMe]

they (SP) also made an object that looked like a flatened spoon (no handle) or "tear dropped" shaped that you put between the metal faceplate and the diaphragm (unfortunalely, that too led to deformation).....

Think its time for someone to come up with a good DIY (or production) solution for that old "key"....

I used a round wooden ball (drawer pull). About the size of a ping pong ball. Drill a hole off center by about a third of the diameter. Sand the side opposite the hole flat, being careful not to sand too much. The idea is to get the flat part to stay against the purge button with out bottoming in the housing before the lever moves and while under tension, it does not flip. Run a piece of surgical tubing through the hole and tie a knot in it. Place the knot between the mouthpiece and the back of the housing, and pull the ball onto the top of the purge and push in.

I dive some old US divers calypso's and that has saved them from taking a set for years. Now I use this trick on all my 2nd's except for the SP G250v's. They will unload.