threads closed?

[HowardE]

Heck I put a post in the SP section here asking to clarify what a grace period was and it was pulled down saying I was antagonizing the manufacturer. *Shakes head* Seems you can't discuss much these days.

You really wanted an answer to "Exactly how long after the period can I go and still be able to get re-instated in my PFL program?"

That's like, "When the empty light is on in the car... how long until I run out of gas?"

The answer to your question should be, "the period is 12 months, and that's it"

But the manufacturer posting the policy clearly isn't enough, and it's not enough for 15 other antagonizing threads in one day is it?

 

[HowardE]

Let it go or get it shut down,... take your pick. I don't disagree with you about the questions being legit, but it seems obvious the company does not want to discuss it & clear the air.

SCUBAPRO posted on SB for the sake of clarifying, their "extremely confusing Parts for Life policy". People want to argue with them about it, and that's not appropriate, and violates ScubaBoard TOS

Your post in another thread pretty well summed it up. They are between a rock & a hard place & dealing with it seems to be an issue.

There is no issue. They were assured (as all participating manufacturers are also assured) that the Q&A Forums are for product support, not to be placed under attack for policy which may be confusing, or unpopular with people who can't seem to mark their calendar and remember when a year is up.

 

[HowardE]

C'mon Tammy, really just let it go? It seems that everyone is asking valid questions that most any other mfg on this board with a VERY FEW exceptions will answer. You are one of the most helpful posters here. I never see you just let it go when someone asks a question. You do your best to answer clearly and with thoughtful consideration. And I've seen you also say you don't know but then go find out. They should follow your example in that way. Not shut everyone down.

You really shouldn't get involved with SCUBAPRO, being a rep for another "manufacturer" should you?

 

[tstormdiver]

SCUBAPRO posted on SB for the sake of clarifying, their "extremely confusing Parts for Life policy". People want to argue with them about it, and that's not appropriate, and violates ScubaBoard TOS.

Howard, I don't think it is/ was the intent of people, including myself, wanting to argue about the policy changes, so much as wanting to know the "why's" of the manufacturer's changes to their policy & has seemingly left some out in the cold. Of course, it is Scubapro's perogative whether or not they want to discuss it,... & as I stated, they obviously do not, for whatever reasons. I am not "whining" so much, as curious. I own 9 MK25's & 10 S600's,... I think that says something about how I feel about their product. My shop is a Scubapro dealer & Scubapro regulators are one our highest selling brands. Their Parts for life policy was the major selling point for their regulators, even before the ease of breathing. Now it will be MUCH more difficult to talk to my students about why they should consider Scubapro over the other brands we sell. I in no way was trying to be offensive nor argumentative, as trying to learn why a company so large & influential in the scuba industry seemingly & suddenly turned its back on their end- users, perhaps something bigger & better is on the way,... you never know..... though I doubt it. I would hazard a guess (& it is only a guess) that they are another victim of the global economic problems that are going on today.

There is no issue. They were assured (as all participating manufacturers are also assured) that the Q&A Forums are for product support, not to be placed under attack for policy which may be confusing, or unpopular with people who can't seem to mark their calendar and remember when a year is up.

I am not attacking them. I would think (& I may be wrong) that their policies are PART of their product. I keep my regulators up in timely fashion, so your last statement there has no bearing on my part. To Scubapro's credit, I recieved an e-mail, the other day that 4 of my regulators are due for service next month. That kind of service is very nice & even softened my view a bit. My main question was & still is WHY should I still recomend their products to my students over the other products we have, that are now bascially the better deal?

So has wanting to learn why something is the way it is, or why it has changed, an attack now? Sure, I understand fully that in written forums like this that intent can be easily misconstrued. If that is the issue, then what is the best way to avoid the misunderstanding & yet still learn?

 

[HowardE]

Howard, I don't think it is/ was the intent of people, including myself, wanting to argue about the policy changes, so much as wanting to know the "why's" of the manufacturer's changes to their policy & has seemingly left some out in the cold.

The only WHY people would be left out in the cold is if they go beyond a year... Which really as I understood it was the policy all along. I've been faithfully bringing in my regulators for service at an authorized dealer since 2004. Why should people be extended special privileges?

Nobody is losing what they HAD, unless they break the agreement.

To Scubapro's credit, I recieved an e-mail, the other day that 4 of my regulators are due for service next month.​

I usually get a reminder from my shop, not from SCUBAPRO directly. People seem to confuse SCUBAPRO's responsibility and the shop's participation in this. Also, the end user seems to want to take no responsibility (not necessarily you, but others) for their own actions.

If people are late, and they were my customers, I'd be like, "sorry about your bad luck." One year is a reasonable amount of time for "annual service"

This new policy isn't a problem for me as a SCUBAPRO customer, since I have annual service performed at an authorized shop.

So has wanting to learn why something is the way it is, or why it has changed, an attack now? Sure, I understand fully that in written forums like this that intent can be easily misconstrued. If that is the issue, then what is the best way to avoid the misunderstanding & yet still learn?

Here's how it is for the Q&A Forums... Simply laid out.

"What is your policy on _____" = acceptable

"Why did you do this ____" = up to the company as to whether or not they want to debate it. Most companies really don't need to debate WHY they changed their policy. I am sure they spent a lot of time on it, and realize that people will be confused and some upset. However, the Q&A Forums are not a place for users to "air their grievances", especially in some instances rude ways toward the reps. The bottom line is... The policy IS what it IS. And they asked and answered the question, and are certainly not responsible to hash it out with armchair quarterbacks who probably wouldn't have the guts to say it to these people's faces.

It's crap like this (people being mean toward manufacturers) that makes Manufacturers (and quite frankly a lot of new users) wary of coming on to ScubaBoard in the first place, because people want to get a pot shot in, and be mean and nasty. I assure manufacturers that it will not happen, and quite frankly... it will not happen. It is in nobody's best interest for these helpful resources to disappear because people want to throw poop at someone.​

 

[k ellis]

My main question was & still is WHY should I still recomend their products to my students over the other products we have, that are now bascially the better deal?

Not to get in to this debate because I clearly dont care what Scubapro chooses to do or not but as a faithful diver I purchased my Scubapro only because of the parts for life program. Now had that have not been in place I would have stuck with my 2 choice manufacturers and those are Zeagle and Oceanic. Now that Scubapro has changed their mind and decided to alter their policy the way they did I will never purchase from them again. As mentioned by others I cant see when the time comes for me to replace my reg should I need to that I would decide to buy a spare BCD and Spare fins and what ever else they require just so I can get a good warranty on one piece of equipment.

Again I dont care if Scubapro answers any questions or not because its their business I am simply stating I am one customer they lost all future business with over their decision.

 

[tstormdiver]

Why should people be extended special privileges?

Last I was told,... No one is perfect. Like you, it's not so much an issue for me. The thing, I think, disappoints people is that they were leinenent about it & now all of a sudden the noose has tightened... you get the drift. Its just my opion, but I do have to agree, that while not obligated to do so, It would have better served SP to give notice to their customers about the changes. Than to take the seemingly,..." Oh, you didn't know it was time to service your regulator,.... sorry about the luck". Just seems kind of sneaky.

I usually get a reminder from my shop, not from SCUBAPRO directly.

This was the first time I have ever gotten a remeider from them. I just always brought them in on time (not easy to do with 9 regulator sets bought a various times of thre year).

This new policy isn't a problem for me as a SCUBAPRO customer, since I have annual service performed at an authorized shop.

The problem I have, is with their dropping the FPFL on their new products. That change is new. As I stated SP is one of our biggest regulator sales. Now I have no ammo to use when a student asks, "why should I use SP over brand X, when Brand X offers more bang for the buck." I'm sorry,... but there are much better BC's out there than SP's that will serve my students better & certainly much better & more user friendly dive computers than Scubapro's offerings. I honestly can not reccommend products I can not know aren't the better quality. Of course, if a customer says they want lower quality, I'll show them what we have,... but to seriously reccommend it, no. To say, "Well you have to buy this superior regulator & to get the free parts for life, you also have to buy a crappy BC & computer", sounds pretty lame doesn't it? I am certainly not brand loyal. I use what works, which happend to be multiple brands. It also leaves out in the cold their older cuatomers who, as some have mentioned, don't need a full set of gear, but may want to replace or upgrade parts of their set up. SP & my LDS want me to sell thier product, right? Kind of hard when you're left with no way to convince the interested customer that it is the better brand.

 

[diveprof]

Howard, I think the reason many of us have shared our concerns is not to bash Scubapro- many of us love their products. T. Storm has made major financial decisions favorable to SP. I really have no immediate concerns as my reg servicing is current. I have a great local Scubapro dealer. So my comments are not intended to complain about me personally losing a benefit . I think that many of the folks posting are just wanting to express their concern with the recent changes at Scubapro and how this will impact their future buying decisions and their concern for the future of the product/company. For existing divers who do not need to purchase an enitre set-up, this has removed a major incentive to upgrade or replace a reg with SP. Many may also be upset with the "way" this change (particularly the change in enforcement of the lifetime free parts policy) was not communicated to existing owners by SP. Whine and Cheese may be the appropriate forum for all these comments, but I think many folks may be posting in the Scubapro forum as we have no idea if they even review the comments about Scubapro in the other forums. They've responded in their own forum only minimally. I for one would like to see SP remain a major player in the scuba industry. I am concerned that recent changes will negatively impact the company. As an advocate of their regs - my comments are meant to give them a heads up from the customer's perspective. I do appreciate SB's interest in not wanting SP to feel "bashed" as they are a new member and certainly want Scubapro to remain a part of SB. Unfortunately, the timing of the changes and their membership is resulting challenging intro to SB.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You really shouldn't get involved with SCUBAPRO, being a rep for another "manufacturer" should you?

I am not a rep. I am a retailer. Big difference. I was a ScubaPro user as well as long as their policies did not have a negative effect on me. When it became too difficult to obtain the parts to service my own regs that became a negative effect and I got rid of them.

And I was not getting involved with them. I was addressing Tammy's comment. That is not against the TOS as I read them. I did not attack anyone. I made an observation regarding a response or lack thereof commented on by another SB member. And my post in the other thread made note of them but only as an example of the GENERAL tendencies of companies unfamiliar with the web and message boards to have problems adjusting and the steps some of them seem to take.

All of the questions and threads were perfectly reasonable. It's what people who think for themselves do when something changes or happens that they dislike, surprises them, or catches them off guard. They ask questions and expect to get some kind of reasonable answer and explanation.

 

[tstormdiver]

Howard, I think the reason many of us have shared our concerns is not to bash Scubapro- many of us love their products. T. Storm has made major financial decisions favorable to SP. I really have no immediate concerns as my reg servicing is current. I have a great local Scubapro dealer. So my comments are not intended to complain about me personally losing a benefit . I think that many of the folks posting are just wanting to express their concern with the recent changes at Scubapro and how this will impact their future buying decisions and their concern for the future of the product/company. For existing divers who do not need to purchase an enitre set-up, this has removed a major incentive to upgrade or replace a reg with SP. Many may also be upset with the "way" this change (particularly the change in enforcement of the lifetime free parts policy) was not communicated to existing owners by SP. Whine and Cheese may be the appropriate forum for all these comments, but I think many folks may be posting in the Scubapro forum as we have no idea if they even review the comments about Scubapro in the other forums. They've responded in their own forum only minimally. I for one would like to see SP remain a major player in the scuba industry. I am concerned that recent changes will negatively impact the company. As an advocate of their regs - my comments are meant to give them a heads up from the customer's perspective. I do appreciate SB's interest in not wanting SP to feel "bashed" as they are a new member and certainly want Scubapro to remain a part of SB. Unfortunately, the timing of the changes and their membership is resulting challenging intro to SB.

Well stated.