Tina Watson Death - The Full Story

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Hi Mike, I'm Caroline (Caro).


I don't want to go over the technical details of the case again, I think you've covered that really well in your blog. As you're the only person on here who has met Gabe Watson, I'd like to ask how you think he has coped with the adverse and critical "publicity" and misinformation in the media and elsewhere. Also, do you think the Thomas' family will now let this rest since he's been acquitted?


I'd think it must make everything somuch worse to be hounded by the media and be judged online, but that's only my opinion.
 
Considering what he has been through, I think he has handled it all pretty well. He has a very supportive and loving family who have totally stood by him. Also, Kim, his wife, is also a very strong person. Her family are also very supportive, being in court every day that Gabe was on trial. I think he was a bit naive and that did not help him. He thought the best of the police, believing them, even late as 2006 and 2007 when they told him they did not consider him as being responsible.

I do not think the Thomas family will accept this. I have thought about trying to speak to Tommy Thomas and try to show him the realities of the dive evidence compared to what was produced at the Coroner's Inquest which was, to be honest, not correct and certainly not complete. I know that Dr Carl Edmonds tried when we were in the US to make contact with him so that he could speak to him about the medical reasons that support this being an accident. He was unsuccessful. I have access to his email address, but I am still unsure as to what to do. If I was still in the US and able to meet personally, then I would probably try, as I think I would need to show him personally evidence to back up what I believe.

This is a truly sad case, for both Gabe and Tina, as well as all their family and friends. One of the main reasons I got involved was I would hate to see a friend of mine in a situation like this where the relatives of their buddy decided to use all the political pressure they could to have them prosecuted for murder.

“Courage is a virtue and heroism is admirable, but do we have a right to demand them? Which of us cannot look back on his or her own life and remember decisions, or compromises made, or silences kept because of cowardice…” - Theodore Dalrymple about the Captain of the MV Costa Concordia sinking
 
Thanks for that. I must admit I was curious as to how someone would cope in such a situation as it's so far out of most people's experience. I'm glad he has such great support.

I do feel sad also in a way for the Thomas family though because they'll never be able to move on while they think like that. People forget that to forgive someone is a gift for yourself.

That's a difficult choice for you. Even if the evidence you have was presented to them perhaps they may not be able to accept it? It seems from this "outsider's" pov they've spent a large part of their lives trying to get the legal outcome they decided Watson deserved.

I like the quote! True!
 
Roger, these are last comments I will make to your comments as there is no way that you are ever going to change your mind. I do not think you have even read all the pages.

[Roger: I did read them. Some of the pages over and over. My mind can be changed. I can be persuaded by strong evidence. You have some very good facts and evidence in the report, and you changed my mind on many things. But most of the facts that you give are not facts. It's conjecture. You then give your opinion on things that, sadly, bring the entire report in question. Had you just reported on the diving things, I would have trusted your report more. But you wrote about so much stuff that isn't your area of expertise or fact, repudiating absolutely any even slightly negative about Gabe, that it ends up calling the parts you do have expertise in into question. With all that said, again, thank you for presenting it. It just isn't so overly compelling that it changes my opinion.]

Gabe and Tina and Wade Singleton and three others all entered the water at the same second. They all did a backward roll off the tender at the same time. Therefore, Gabe and Tina descended first, the others followed. The volunteer dive master said she could easily see them a few metres below her when she started to descend. This equals about 30 seconds in my view.

[Roger: Again, conjecture. The time spent on the surface and just below the surface can really change timelines. For instance, my HUD Divemask, doesn't turn on until I'm 3ft below the surface. My wife's computer turns on immediately on top of the surface. Our dive profiles are always off by 30 seconds to 1 minute depending on how long she takes to head down.]

What speech to others on the boat? The one when he thanked everyone? Only two people, husband and wife, reported adversely on his speech. Every other person on the boat said that they do not remember anything strange about what he said.

[Roger: This is a good example of your conjecture. You're an expert witness and you know the problems with eyewitness testimony. Sometimes all are wrong. Sometimes all are right. Who's to say who's recollection is best here? But you do, over and over. You discount nearly everything the wife and husband say, but accept everything Gabe says. You're obviously biased.]

Where is there any evidence that he flirted with Tina's best friend a few days after Tina died? I was in the court when she gave evidence, she said nothing of the kind. I have read her statements and her evidence to the Coroner's Inquest. Again, she never said anything like this.

[Roger: It's been reported on many times, and I think I even remember her saying this on TV and showing the Hallmark card he wrote to her flirting even more. Probably not allowed in court, but it would be conjecture on my part to state why it was or wasn't recorded in the evidence you reviewed.]

His inaction in saving Tina in "clear, warm water" comes down to the fact that he was a total novice diver. He had done 15 ocean dives, none of which had been done in the previous 4 years, none in conditions like he encountered and the first time ever he had dived in the ocean without an instructor watching over him.

[Roger: Agreed. But at the same time, I find that people panic tons more in the cold quarries as compared to warm, azure, waters. Yes, he was very inexperienced. Yes, he was nearly a novice. But he wasn't a novice. He didn't have 0 dives. He didn't have 6 dives. He had over a dozen OCEAN dives. Heck, you keep pointing to agency recommendations. At this point he could literally start to be a AOW or a Master diver, if we're going to point to agency recommendations as a point for due care or reasonableness.]

Ayisha, I know there is nothing that will make you change your mind, you have made that clear over the past month. There is conjecture in my report, there has to be. However, it is based on facts and I make it clear when I am doing this. Some bits prove that Gabe did not kill Tina by cutting off her air. The one thing that proves this is that if he did do it, Tina's air consumption while she was alive had to have been about 100 litres per minute. This is almost 10 times what I use and is so high an amount, she could not possibly have used this much air in such a short period of time.

[Roger: It is conjecture. The pressure is conjecture, and even if the pressure was validated by picture, changes by temperature, guage, equipment fitness, and other factors. can impact the readings. How long she spent breathing on the tender before entering the water, how long on the surface, how much her breathing was accelerated because she panicked can all play into air use. Your presentation is the first I've seen on the matter and I commend you. But at the same time, most of what you propose is conjecture. Most of what you say just isn't fact. And you know it, if you are in courtrooms as much as you state. If you shared this with a judge he would be likely to throw out everything you state, because you are too biased. You're not independent. It's what causes me hesitation with complete acceptance of your report.]

Again, I will answer any questions from others on this matter.[/QUOTE]
[Roger: Again, I appreciate you sharing this information. You are to be commended.]
 
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Again, I will answer any questions from others on this matter.

I have a question. Full disclosure = I have not and will not read your pages unless your answer is something specific here. Have you provided copies of all "evidence" that you claim to have seen on your page? If not, why do you think that anybody should believe the things you say. Just because you are self professed expert on the topic? I could be as well. I just need to write a couple pages of stuff and claim it is all based on evidence.

I (and I doubt I am alone) just need a reason to believe everything you say on this matter. I am just asking for documented proof of the things you say. If they exist, this should not be a problem to produce.

FTR, if this information is available and I missed it, then I apologize for the interruption.
 
From the start it was evident the judge was dubious about the case. The prosecution were given a chance to put up their best evidence. It fell into a heap. I think the last straw for the case was when they tried to suggest that Gabe's request to have his wife's ring was evidence for the case.

The defense was never really given a chance to really shred the case to pieces which seems likely had the trial been allowed to proceed. If Clownfishsydney can throw some light on the case that was developed by the defense I think there would be a number here who would be interested.

For a start, I'm interested to hear a detailed explanation of how Tina likely drowned with a regulator in her mouth. The question of how long it would take for a person to drown must surely have been discussed. Did Dr Edmonds comment on these matters?
 
I have a question. I am just asking for documented proof of the things you say. If they exist, this should not be a problem to produce.

FTR, if this information is available and I missed it, then I apologize for the interruption.

ScubaSteve, I'm not sure what you would consider "documented proof", but he does provide a ton of detail that indicates that he has the source documents he is referring to. He even points to inconsistencies that would be hard to know without having seen the source documents. My issue isn't the evidence he shared. For that I'm thankful. It's the huge amount of opinion not supported by strong evidence that I question.

On a related note, he's written enough that I have to assume that either he or someone else using his notes and evidence will be writing a book. Because his evidence reads like a short book, starting with where people were born, who they dated earlier, and their family backgrounds. It's very unusual context for a subject matter expert witness to create and share.
 
.....but he does provide a ton of detail that indicates that he has the source documents he is referring to. He even points to inconsistencies that would be hard to know without having seen the source documents.....

In theory that works for me. I just did not want to waste a lot of time reading more speculation with no support. Now I have some light reading to do :D.
 
I'm interested to hear a detailed explanation of how Tina likely drowned with a regulator in her mouth.

Wow, that is a great question I overlooked. Lots of divers are found drown with a regulator in their mouth and air in the tank, but most are eventually diagnosed with a medical condition that caused it. In this case, they didn't find a medical cause. So, it's a good question. With that said, some drown divers with air and a regulator, with no involved diagnosed medical condition, are found time to time. It's not unheard of. But I have to believe yet another uncommon condition occurred along with the other dozen or so uncommon responses and conditions occurred, to believe Gabe is innocent. It is the sheer amount of linking of those uncommon dot-to-dots, that makes me believe he is guilty.
 
It seems like this isn't the thread to use to reopen discussion on the theories behind the Watson tragedy. Clownfishsydney has worked hard to compile a ton of information and then started a thread which would give us the opportunity to ask him further questions about the information.

If you go back and read this thread: Watson Murder Case - Discussion You will see an extensive discussion which takes place over a 4 year period and which starts out with most of us thinking Watson was guilty. As we read more and more about the case, some of us began to think that Watson was not guilty. It is a lot of reading, and you will see a turning point in the posters' opinions about half way through the thread, and a strong shift toward Watson not being guilty, toward the end of the thread. McFadyen (CFS) had very little to do with the shift of opinion. He too, started off believing Watson was guilty.

If we were to rely soley on the spoonfed infromation from shows like 48 hours, we would have wanted to see Watson hanged. But it was the inconsistencies in the witness statements and the discussion in absolutes as to how divers should respond to various situations that changed my mind. The press always has an agenda beyond just reporting the story. They don't report on the nice time the honeymoon couple was having before the accident, nor the witness statements of "the glowing newlywed bride", nor the fact that later dives in the trip were scheduled for wall dives where a planned murder would have sent the victim to irretrievable depths.

We are supposed to believe that Watson planned this months in advance, flew half way around the world, had a few days touring Australia, going to the Opera, having a romantic time, and then pulled the air off/air on murder on the very first dive?
Searching for an explanation based on hearsay and then finding an explanation by assigning conspiracy and murder is the same as looking into the sky and claiming to see UFOs when a reflection of sunlight off a military aircraft is observed. A little more thought and insite gives us an explanation which is more feasible than a UFO.

Only in the last few months did I come across McFadyen's website.
His website brought some clarity to my hypothesis that Inadequate training, Gabe's over estimation of his own abilities, and being out of practice, were together the root cause of the tragedy. Dr Edmonds statements and the discussion in the thread above, solidified my conversion from thinking Watson was guilty to being positive that he wasn't. Watson's bizarre behavior is only indicative of him being a bizarre dude.

If we are to use our own experience and empirical evidence to define diver's behavior, then here are some of my observations which are detailed in the above linked thread. I have worked with 1000s of dive students and have seen many types of panic, poor decision making, and bizarre behavior. I have witnessed passive panic with overweighted divers sinking slowly with arms outstretched and the husband/boyfriend swimming around at 20 feet, just looking at their buddy lying on the bottom 80 feet below, looking up. I have witnessed "Advanced" divers breath around the mouthpiece and inhale water as they sank toward the bottom.

I've seen Rescue divers practicing, and when they contact the "distressed" diver, they drag him down 40 feet below the contact point and then react by inflating the BC and make a buoyant ascent. I've seen rescue divers make a safety stop while responding to a bleeding diver with no thought to the possibility that the victim could bleed out during the safety stop.
I've come across divers who didn't do an equipment check before entering the water and had set their kit up on nearly empty tanks. They got to 70 feet on a night dive and ran out of air. When I came across them, they were just sitting there at 70 feet, OOA and doing nothing but waiting for the grim reeper. In each of the above cases, someone was there to remedy the situation. In Watson's case, no one was immediately available or able to deal with their situation.

IMO agency standards allow Instructors to teach short courses that cover the minimum standards, but poorly prepare divers for real life open water diving. We know from statements made, that Tina panicked during her confined water training. We know that it had been years since Gabe completed his Rescue Course. He was out of practice, out of his element, and when things started to go wrong underwater, it was out of his control.
The same instructor who signed off on the panic prone Tina, also signed off on Gabe's training.

Three days ago, one of my students completed all of her skills per agency standards while in the pool. She periodically had panic attacks throughout the entire 3 hour confined water session. In the end, I would not sign off on her training because I didn't feel that she could go into the ocean and not risk panic. She has the opportunity to come back and build more confidence, practice her skills, and spend time working on buoyancy, trim, and general underwater proficiency.

What if the situation were reversed. There is no possible way that Tina could have saved Gabe. Would we be calling her a murderer had Gabe been the one who died?

Everything in the Watson scenario is explainable with compareable diving situations.
 
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