Tip for OW classes?

[oly5050user]

Oh, I just thought of another analogy that had to do with dental office. How about this:

You come to the dental office. Nice lady meets you, takes you to the room. Room is clean and setup with sterile instruments for your procedure. Lady is reassuring you that it will not be as bad as you think. She talks to you trying to take your mind of procedure. She holds your hand during the injections, is very careful with suction w/o sucking your tongue into it, wipes you face with during the procedure, jokes with you to relax you. After the procedure instead of sending you to the mirror she is carefully cleans your face from residue of procedure with wet towel. Then she brings you warmed up moist towel to put on your jaw muscles, so they stop hurting from keeping open. On your next appointment it all repeats but she also remembers you by name, remembers you like SCUBA and talks about it. Or, she is also CPR certified, trained in BLS and would be the one to perform CPR in case you collapse in the office for whatever reason.

Now questions:
1. Should you tip her?
2. Would your opinion change if you found out she is paid minimum wage due to saturated job market?
3. How about if you found out she is not getting paid since she is on her internship and has to work for a month for free to get her diploma?

How the hell can you compare a dentist or medical professional to a scuba instructor..That really is not comparing apples to oranges here. A dentist can make over $100,000. a year..most scuba instructors make less than $10,000. Even a scuba instructor working FULL time teaching a class EVERY day in a busy resort area makes less than $25,000. a year.
The instructor is paid to perform a service-teach a scuba course /skills over a period of time..if a student is slow or super klutz why should a instructor work longer hours with out being compensated,either in the form of a tip or hourly pay? We are not here to save the world and teach everyone to dive as some kind of evangelist,we show up on time and do a job..and would like to be compensated for it..I see a student drive their 2011 BMW convertible into the parking lot and then complain "Oh it too expensive a scuba course for $269." but they want private lessons one to one on their schedule,yeah right(I charge $600.for that level of service,acad and pool only-and very often get it) WTF I think as I stand there in my jeans and see my 14 year old jeep parked in the same lot..

 

[k ellis]

As a divemaster tips are appreciated but I never solicit tips. I guess I am old fashioned in that people have spent enough money as it is to just get certified. When you factor in the gas it takes to get to the dive site, the hotels, the cost of the certs and then their meals and everything they can easily be out over 600 dollars. I dont tip places where they over solicit the tips so I dont expect people to tip me when I do. If I go on a dive I tip generously when I am not given the riot act about how the divemaster will die if I dont.

Now its like scubaboard. I have seen divemasters come on here and bash people for not tipping. Never mind the fact a tip is a gratuity. Its a level of graciousness that the customer feels. If they feel you did a poor job they are not required to give you anything. However dont be shocked if when you return you dont get as top knotch service. Now when they tip you generously then you know you have done a job well done. And if you tip generously dont think it does not go unnoticed. You may get the red carpet next time around.

All in all I am content with a simple speach at the end such as "If you feel we did a good job and would like to show your appreciation we do have a tip jar located here" But never come to me and tell me that I have to give any set amount or that I have to give a tip. That to me is poor manners and gets at best a small tip.

 

[dmoore19]

Pay is for the end result, in my opinion. I am a dentist. You come with severe pain to the office. Tooth needs to be taken out. I charge you certain fees. Let's say $150, what is 50 percentile UCR (usual and customary) fee for the area, so it's competetive, not too high, not too low. We agree. I anesthetise you, as per usual procedure. When I start taking out a tooth you start screaming and swinging you arms. It turns out you have a phobia of dentists since childhood and some pressure feeling makes you scared and you cannot control yourself at this point. I anesthetise you some more, using more advanced techniques. You still scream and don't let me do it even admitting that it doesn't hurt, you are just scared. After spending 1 hour trying to calm you down we figure it won't work. I prescribe you pain killers and medication to make you calm with instructions on how to use prior to you next appointment. Meanwhile, Ms. Smith, who has been a nice patient of the practice for many years, left due to waiting for me for too long. She left very upset and told front staff that she will find another dentist and will tell all her friends not to come to my office.

You come next time, a bit sedated. I anesthetise you again. I start taking the tooth out, you don't scream but still jerk a little. Due to your sharp movement I break the root. I have to open your gums, drill out some bone and take out remaining piece, put sutures. All of it through a stressfull time with you jerking your head around uncontrolably, shaking your legs so that the whole chair is moving, asking for a break every 5 seconds. We are finally done. Now I have couple of questions:

1. What will happen if I tell you at this point that $150 will not cover the procedure since it was much more difficult and time consuming then I anticipated?
2. Will you tip me and/or my staff?

1. Do I have a choice? Probably not. You get paid.
2. No tip.

I am probably your worst nightmare . I can relate to the patient you described.

 

[gcarter]

As a divemaster tips are appreciated but I never solicit tips. I guess I am old fashioned in that people have spent enough money as it is to just get certified. When you factor in the gas it takes to get to the dive site, the hotels, the cost of the certs and then their meals and everything they can easily be out over 600 dollars. I dont tip places where they over solicit the tips so I dont expect people to tip me when I do. If I go on a dive I tip generously when I am not given the riot act about how the divemaster will die if I dont.

Now its like scubaboard. I have seen divemasters come on here and bash people for not tipping. Never mind the fact a tip is a gratuity. Its a level of graciousness that the customer feels. If they feel you did a poor job they are not required to give you anything. However dont be shocked if when you return you dont get as top knotch service. Now when they tip you generously then you know you have done a job well done. And if you tip generously dont think it does not go unnoticed. You may get the red carpet next time around.

All in all I am content with a simple speach at the end such as "If you feel we did a good job and would like to show your appreciation we do have a tip jar located here" But never come to me and tell me that I have to give any set amount or that I have to give a tip. That to me is poor manners and gets at best a small tip.

I sort of agree, it is just that I rarely see where tipping makes a positive difference, only where the lack of makes a negative one.

The reality that I experience with most service businesses where tipping has become expected is that not tipping gets you crappy service and tipping generally only gets you ok service. It is extremely rare to get "red carpet" anywhere, since most of use do not have the wallet to support TMZ-reported celebrity sized tips. It is an entitlement mentality.

I am squarely in the camp charge me a fair price and expect nothing else. I will reward exceptional service with a tip, not OK service.

If you can't afford to pay your employees a fair wage, then you aren't charging a fair price. That is not my problem, it is yours as an employer. Raise your prices to a fair level so you can pay a fair wage.

 

[vladodessit]

How the hell can you compare a dentist or medical professional to a scuba instructor..That really is not comparing apples to oranges here. A dentist can make over $100,000. a year..most scuba instructors make less than $10,000. Even a scuba instructor working FULL time teaching a class EVERY day in a busy resort area makes less than $25,000. a year.
The instructor is paid to perform a service-teach a scuba course /skills over a period of time..if a student is slow or super klutz why should a instructor work longer hours with out being compensated,either in the form of a tip or hourly pay? We are not here to save the world and teach everyone to dive as some kind of evangelist,we show up on time and do a job..and would like to be compensated for it..I see a student drive their 2011 BMW convertible into the parking lot and then complain "Oh it too expensive a scuba course for $269." but they want private lessons one to one on their schedule,yeah right(I charge $600.for that level of service,acad and pool only-and very often get it) WTF I think as I stand there in my jeans and see my 14 year old jeep parked in the same lot..

Don't take me wrong here. I am not saying it's comparable. I just gave a real life example of where I think tipping culture is wrong. Although, to become an instructor you didn't have to go to college/university for 6 years while paying in the neighborhood of half a million dollars for that (to be fair, I paid less, it was more then 10 years ago but while teaching in dental school recently I have seen students with loans in excess of half a mil; I volunteered, BTW, just to give back to the institution I felt was very fine at the time). And just to make sure, we are performing services too. And our time is valuable and overhead is very high. Why shouldn't I get paid if I have to deal with somebody with head issues, gives me hard time and takes away my time from others?

Also, if you noticed, my next post was about an assistant. They don't make tons of money. And they had to go to school and pay significant tuition for their education (for the level of pay, at least). Like somebody else in this thread said, if you are not happy with the fees, either raise them or seek different business.I'd love to be in SCUBA or sailing business but they don't provide (at least the common business model) the pay to satisfy my needs. This is why I do what I don't like as much (I didn't say I hate it, just don't like as much). If you do what you love, it may pay less but should, at least, leave you happy at the end of the day.

 

[vladodessit]

Oh, BTW, I did tip my OW instructor in Cabo (I think he was surprised). And I have very few dives, but on two day trips we took with my son, I tipped the crew on the boat. In my observation, more then most other divers. I did it due to crew being very nice and helpful to new divers (cannot recommend Sundiver Express enough, especially for novice divers in SoCal). Did they deserve the tips? No question. Will I tip in the future if I don't need as much help? Absolutely.

 

[vladodessit]

1. Do I have a choice? Probably not. You get paid.

Well, it doesn't work like this. Maybe you'd just do it. Most would raise hell and would complain to anyplace they could find in yellow pages, from local BBB to United Nations General assembly.

Why no tips?

Otherwise, don't worry. I haven't had nightmares since I was 10 We'd deal with your fears and you'd be just fine.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

When does it end? Why don't you tip everyone that does a job for you. Bus Drivers, Pilots, your Doctor, grocery clerk, mail man, the guy at the McDonalds window. BS! Most of the dentists in my neighbor hood make more than a GP. The extraction that takes 5 minutes, more than makes up for the one that takes 1 hour. I am a capitalist and you should charge what the market will bear. I support that fully. That's why I go to Mexico to get my dental work done. Did you know that in certain parts of the world, if you don't tip the guy cutting your head off, it may take 6 or 7 whacks. Now, that's a guy I am going to tip. Tipping is an onerous and nasty practice and totally voluntary. I tip my DM and my Captain; but, don't whine and bitch when you don't get one. I reiterate, most of the Scuba Instructors are getting paid to do something they love. If you don't like the pay you are getting then raise your rates! I fail to see how someones low pay is my fault.

Not thanking someone that does a good job for you is just plain rude.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

Pay is for the end result, in my opinion. I am a dentist. You come with severe pain to the office. Tooth needs to be taken out. I charge you certain fees. Let's say $150, what is 50 percentile UCR (usual and customary) fee for the area, so it's competetive, not too high, not too low. We agree. I anesthetise you, as per usual procedure. When I start taking out a tooth you start screaming and swinging you arms. It turns out you have a phobia of dentists since childhood and some pressure feeling makes you scared and you cannot control yourself at this point. I anesthetise you some more, using more advanced techniques. You still scream and don't let me do it even admitting that it doesn't hurt, you are just scared. After spending 1 hour trying to calm you down we figure it won't work. I prescribe you pain killers and medication to make you calm with instructions on how to use prior to you next appointment. Meanwhile, Ms. Smith, who has been a nice patient of the practice for many years, left due to waiting for me for too long. She left very upset and told front staff that she will find another dentist and will tell all her friends not to come to my office.

You come next time, a bit sedated. I anesthetise you again. I start taking the tooth out, you don't scream but still jerk a little. Due to your sharp movement I break the root. I have to open your gums, drill out some bone and take out remaining piece, put sutures. All of it through a stressfull time with you jerking your head around uncontrolably, shaking your legs so that the whole chair is moving, asking for a break every 5 seconds. We are finally done. Now I have couple of questions:

1. What will happen if I tell you at this point that $150 will not cover the procedure since it was much more difficult and time consuming then I anticipated?
2. Will you tip me and/or my staff?

If it's in the contract that you have the patient sign then he should pay you. I have no problem paying for your service if I know up front it may cost extra and how much. If it's not in the contract and you charge by the job, then you are out of luck. I have no problem with a Scuba Instructor giving a price for x amount of hours/modules and if you don't complete in that time frame then it costs x dollars per hour more. In fact I think it is a great idea. Then instructors would not be tempted to let a sub par student pass.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

Tips are there for someone to show appreciation for a service.Many times a instr may go to extra lengths to get a student to a level that they can be certified. The instructor may be getting paid on a per head or course basis and is not compensated for the extra time it may take.Definitely deserves a tip. If the cost of the course is raised to accomodate the extra time that may be involved then EVERYONE pays a higher fee to learn to dive.Is it fair to he people who "get it" 1st time around as 98% of my students do? To pay an instructor $25. to comlete academic/pool sessions for a course is an insult to the instructor.That comes out to like $6. an hour just to do module 1 alone...Instructors should be paid hourly.This way he/she does their job correctly without fear of not making any money for the time spent.If a student required excessively more time than what a group class requires,that person should be charged for it on a private basis.

You know how much you are going to get ($25). For sure it is really low pay; but, you new that upfront. I fail to see how that is an insult. If you really think it is an insult then charge more for your services upfront. We all think we are underpaid, but I don't whine about it. I am not a Scuba Instructor because no one in their right mind would pay my hourly rate.