Tipping the boat crew - conventions around the world?

[theduckguru]

A tip on over-tipping: Don't - Los Angeles Times

And yes, I agree with Judith (Miss Manners) Martin's opinion in this article that tipping is a vile system.

http://www.ruerude.com/2007/01/the_brave_decis.html

 

[Quero]

tdg, you have quoted an article that demonstrates my point about overgeneralization. The article cites Thailand as a place where there is no tipping. The author and the "expert" the author consulted are both categorically wrong on this point. It is much more subtle than this blanket assertion leads one to believe. And even in Japan, another oft-cited "no tipping culture" example, certain service workers, such as golf caddies, get tips. I suspect that dive staff in Japan also receive tips, but I admit that I draw this conclusion from the behavior of Japanese tourists to Thailand who tip their Japanese DMs on dive boats. If it were really so objectionable culturally, visiting Japanese divers wouldn't make their compatriot Japanese DMs "lose face" by offering them tips on dive boats here!

 

[theduckguru]

Your observations well taken thx.

tdg, you have quoted an article that demonstrates my point about overgeneralization. The article cites Thailand as a place where there is no tipping. The author and the "expert" the author consulted are both categorically wrong on this point. It is much more subtle than this blanket assertion leads one to believe. And even in Japan, another oft-cited "no tipping culture" example, certain service workers, such as golf caddies, get tips. I suspect that dive staff in Japan also receive tips, but I admit that I draw this conclusion from the behavior of Japanese tourists to Thailand who tip their Japanese DMs on dive boats. If it were really so objectionable culturally, visiting Japanese divers wouldn't make their compatriot Japanese DMs "lose face" by offering them tips on dive boats here!

 

[Mike]

No, but you did say you tipped the owners of small hotels in Mexico and Italy who you thought went beyond the call of duty, which is something I'm doubtful your average Mexican or Italian guest would have done. You were trying to draw a parallel of some kind to tipping the owner of a dive operation who has no other staff helping him, which is a scenario someone brought up. Fair enough. The real difficulty, as I see it (other than you calling me a "boob") is that it's tricky to draw inferences about how to tip dive operators based on general tipping conventions in the region. Dive operators get all kinds of visitors from all over the world, and some get more of certain types of visitors than others--thrifty Scandinavians, rich Americans, gap year backpackers, etc. Dive ops also have employees who are more likely to have worked abroad or been exposed to people who have worked abroad (and brought back wonderful concepts like the Tip Box). Even the most local hole-in-the-wall dive op has seen international visitors, likely including Americans. I don't think what you and I or even the writers of general travel guides do when visiting hotels and restaurants (which often have service charges included on the bill) is all that instructive for trying to figure out what we should do when we visit a dive op in the same region. A dive op is sort of a different animal. As I said previously, in trying to figure out how to tip, I try to take the local general tipping customs into account as well as the fact that it's a dive operation and what the other guests are like. I just don't think there are any hard and fast rules that can be applied uniformly at every dive op everywhere in the world.

Boob is a term of endearment.

Now what I said was -

In regard to a dive operator who DMs the dive

I drew a parallel saying would you not tip the owner of a restaurant where the owner waited on you

I then said I had done so in two different countries.

You referenced restaurant as did I. Where you changed this to tipping somebodies hotel had to do with mention of his mother, never mentioned anything about beyond call of duty. Parallel was restaurant not hotel.

Now is a dive op a different animal? You obviously want it to be. Obviously there are others who want to pretend also, just based on how few people tip ANY dive master or crew, of course there would be plenty to joyously try to rationalize a owner/dive master doesn't want any tips, it allows them to rationalize their not tipping anybody.

If the issue of a few bucks here and there for a tip or two is such a deal breaker, well what can I say? Sorry? I guess I can say sorry, I feel bad that it is.

 

[bada bing]

While I am prejudice, for the most part Divers are crappy tippers, especially Instructors and Students (there are always exceptions though). Students because I think that they are just not aware that tipping the crew is customary and Instructors perhaps because there may be a bit of entitlement. On the otherhand, fishermen tend to more generous or are at least aware that tipping the crew is appropriate and customary, typically 15-20% of the cost of the trip. Whether Captain, Deckhand or DM, boat wages are poor and typically work out to less than minimum wage. Therefore, we can only survive and provide you with an excellent service only if our income is supplemented by tips. Additionally, and especially during winter months, I might be lucky to get one or two trips a week and even during peak season, rarely will there be a full weeks work. So we become forced to work multiple boats or jobs. Bottom line is, as a captain, deckhand or DM there is nothing you can do about weather, seas, hunting conditions or diving conditions so you damn-well better have something else going for you. On my boats you get a safe boat ride and excellent service, that's all that can be promised. So, we are ultimately a poorly paid service industry, not unlike waiters and waitresses except that we are responsible for people and lives, not food and cocktails. If you are willing to pay a gratuity for good service with your food and drink, wouldn't you want to be gracious to those maintaining your well-being and providing an excellent service?

 

[RJP]

While I am prejudice, for the most part Divers are crappy tippers, especially Instructors and Students (there are always exceptions though). Students because I think that they are just not aware that tipping the crew is customary and Instructors perhaps because there may be a bit of entitlement. On the otherhand, fishermen tend to more generous or are at least aware that tipping the crew is appropriate and customary, typically 15-20% of the cost of the trip. Whether Captain, Deckhand or DM, boat wages are poor and typically work out to less than minimum wage. Therefore, we can only survive and provide you with an excellent service only if our income is supplemented by tips. Additionally, and especially during winter months, I might be lucky to get one or two trips a week and even during peak season, rarely will there be a full weeks work. So we become forced to work multiple boats or jobs. Bottom line is, as a captain, deckhand or DM there is nothing you can do about weather, seas, hunting conditions or diving conditions so you damn-well better have something else going for you. On my boats you get a safe boat ride and excellent service, that's all that can be promised. So, we are ultimately a poorly paid service industry, not unlike waiters and waitresses except that we are responsible for people and lives, not food and cocktails. If you are willing to pay a gratuity for good service with your food and drink, wouldn't you want to be gracious to those maintaining your well-being and providing an excellent service?

 

[jwillh9181]

I owe a catering business and sometimes my customers want to tip me, I always say thanks but no thanks, I have already made my money on the service I provided to them. If I am working with my employees that particular event I will let them know that they can tip the employees. But I pay my employee's really well and will be honest with my customers on that issue.

This is where the problem is "communication". Wouldn't it be great if you knew up front if tipping was accepted and where those tips go if shared? Call me a pessimist but putting money into a tip pool is risky business, you are relying on an equitable split, I have always assumed that the boss gets that tip and depending on his financial situation at the time he in turn tips what he/she wants to the lower level guys. So I just normally tip the people I interact with, I feel bad sometimes knowing that some of the behind the scene workers are short changed but I believe they are most of the time anyway. I will some times ask the people I tip to take care of the guys that need to be taken care of behind the scenes. Hopefully they do what I ask.

The last dive resort I went to had 2 different tipping envelopes, one for the dive staff(including guys behind the scene) and one for the resort. But I got to know some of the workers and found out that some of the workers didn't get tips at all, they were the waiters and bartenders! I also found out that the guys that drove the boats and the guys that help me with my dive stuff on the boat were considered the resort staff. So the dive tips went to only the dive guides, dive office staff and guys that fill the tanks. In this case the Dive guys were really cashing while the lower end guys were getting screwed. Confusing so I just tipped each of the waiters/bartenders on the down low(they could not take tips I was told) and stiffed the over tipped dive guys. By the way the dive guys were also making more money then most of the rest of the employees except for upper management.

How great it would be see something like this "at this resort we have 100 employees so if you tip $100 each person will get $1, we also have 50 dive personnel so if you tip $100 each person will receive $2 each" Or at a restaurant on the menu "Tips are not required we pay a wage that enables our workers to earn a living wage, if you get exceptional service you can leave a tip but is not required". Or on a Dive boat a sign could read "the owner of the boat/business is a cheap Fuc$er and each of us only get paid $10 per day so your tips really help". As long as this information was accurate my guess is that even the cultures that don't ordinarily tip would probably do so if they knew the whole story. And more importantly I would most likely tip more if I knew that it was going to the right people for the right reasons.

I am American and live in California, I will only tip around 5% if I get normal service but I will tip around 25% for great service. This way I am sending a message to those that don't offer good service, I vote with my dollars. I will also tip well if a waiter lets me know in advance that there are problems "one of the ovens is down or a bus boy and waiter called in sick". In my opinion if you tip a standard 15% no matter what you will never see the level of service improve and mostly get worse. I make my money as a caterer by giving a great product along with good service at a reasonable price. Service employees should do the same.

You have to earn it, not expect it!

 

[Oceans Africa]

I don't think it matters what the convention is - it's always appreciated but should of course be deserved! The price of a few beers is always good

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

While staying at a resort in of all places, Jamaica. Diving was included with our stay, none of the staff were allowed and wouldn't take tips because it could cost them their job.

---------- Post added January 18th, 2013 at 04:27 PM ----------

While I am prejudice, for the most part Divers are crappy tippers, especially Instructors and Students (there are always exceptions though). Students because I think that they are just not aware that tipping the crew is customary and Instructors perhaps because there may be a bit of entitlement. On the otherhand, fishermen tend to more generous or are at least aware that tipping the crew is appropriate and customary, typically 15-20% of the cost of the trip. Whether Captain, Deckhand or DM, boat wages are poor and typically work out to less than minimum wage. Therefore, we can only survive and provide you with an excellent service only if our income is supplemented by tips. Additionally, and especially during winter months, I might be lucky to get one or two trips a week and even during peak season, rarely will there be a full weeks work. So we become forced to work multiple boats or jobs. Bottom line is, as a captain, deckhand or DM there is nothing you can do about weather, seas, hunting conditions or diving conditions so you damn-well better have something else going for you. On my boats you get a safe boat ride and excellent service, that's all that can be promised. So, we are ultimately a poorly paid service industry, not unlike waiters and waitresses except that we are responsible for people and lives, not food and cocktails. If you are willing to pay a gratuity for good service with your food and drink, wouldn't you want to be gracious to those maintaining your well-being and providing an excellent service?

Now this is a hard one to gauge IMHO, while I've contracted with the dive shop/instructor, who in turn contracted with the boat, I've paid said dive shop/instructor. how am then supposed to be expected to tip the people on the boat. That scenario happened to me when I went through my training. Do I tip the instructor/dive shop that filled my tanks, capt, and deck hand?

 

[theduckguru]

Watch "Rethink tipping: Bruce McAdams - TEDxGuelphU 2012" Video at nrn

I owe a catering business and sometimes my customers want to tip me, I always say thanks but no thanks, I have already made my money on the service I provided to them. If I am working with my employees that particular event I will let them know that they can tip the employees. But I pay my employee's really well and will be honest with my customers on that issue.

This is where the problem is "communication". Wouldn't it be great if you knew up front if tipping was accepted and where those tips go if shared? Call me a pessimist but putting money into a tip pool is risky business, you are relying on an equitable split, I have always assumed that the boss gets that tip and depending on his financial situation at the time he in turn tips what he/she wants to the lower level guys. So I just normally tip the people I interact with, I feel bad sometimes knowing that some of the behind the scene workers are short changed but I believe they are most of the time anyway. I will some times ask the people I tip to take care of the guys that need to be taken care of behind the scenes. Hopefully they do what I ask.

The last dive resort I went to had 2 different tipping envelopes, one for the dive staff(including guys behind the scene) and one for the resort. But I got to know some of the workers and found out that some of the workers didn't get tips at all, they were the waiters and bartenders! I also found out that the guys that drove the boats and the guys that help me with my dive stuff on the boat were considered the resort staff. So the dive tips went to only the dive guides, dive office staff and guys that fill the tanks. In this case the Dive guys were really cashing while the lower end guys were getting screwed. Confusing so I just tipped each of the waiters/bartenders on the down low(they could not take tips I was told) and stiffed the over tipped dive guys. By the way the dive guys were also making more money then most of the rest of the employees except for upper management.

How great it would be see something like this "at this resort we have 100 employees so if you tip $100 each person will get $1, we also have 50 dive personnel so if you tip $100 each person will receive $2 each" Or at a restaurant on the menu "Tips are not required we pay a wage that enables our workers to earn a living wage, if you get exceptional service you can leave a tip but is not required". Or on a Dive boat a sign could read "the owner of the boat/business is a cheap Fuc$er and each of us only get paid $10 per day so your tips really help". As long as this information was accurate my guess is that even the cultures that don't ordinarily tip would probably do so if they knew the whole story. And more importantly I would most likely tip more if I knew that it was going to the right people for the right reasons.

I am American and live in California, I will only tip around 5% if I get normal service but I will tip around 25% for great service. This way I am sending a message to those that don't offer good service, I vote with my dollars. I will also tip well if a waiter lets me know in advance that there are problems "one of the ovens is down or a bus boy and waiter called in sick". In my opinion if you tip a standard 15% no matter what you will never see the level of service improve and mostly get worse. I make my money as a caterer by giving a great product along with good service at a reasonable price. Service employees should do the same.

You have to earn it, not expect it!