Tipping

[Clark Fletcher]

Shouldn't the "arrangement" be that the dive op pays the deckhand, and passes the cost on to you by charging a little more? This is how I understand it works in the rest of the world. Why not here? (Several posts already have provided some insight as to why not.) That's sort of the discussion I was trying to open.

Again, none of my business what the dive op's specific arrangement with the deck hand is. It's not my place to tell anyone else, including a dive op, how to run their business. No two business, even within the same industry, are run the same. And that's regardless of whether they're in the US our outside the US. In fact, I didn't even know the arrangement between the dive op and the deck hand even existed. When I handed my tip to the Captain I was expecting that it would be split between the entire crew (which is more typical). The Captain then immediately turned to the deck hand and gave the entire tip to him and told me the deck hand was only working for tips. Personally, I didn't have a problem with it then and still don't have a problem with it. If I did, I'd simply take my business elsewhere. And, I would have tipped the same even if I'd know about the arrangement up front.

There are all kinds of fixed costs like this, such as fuel. The boat uses the same amount of fuel regardless of how small the group of divers it takes out. One would suppose that a business with fixed costs tries to predict and average these fixed costs over many trips, so that in the end they earn a profit. Why should the deck hand's pay not be included along with fuel and other fixed costs?

Actually, fuel is not necessarily a fixed cost. We recently, booked a charter off the coast of NC (which ultimately got blown out). We booked the trip at a given price but, were told up front that we may end up having to pay a fuel surplus charge because of the refinery closings in Texas. Regardless, I see it as a waste of my time to do a due diligence on a dive op to see how they run their business before I book a charter. I book based on whether a dive op has a good reputation or whether I've had a positive experience with them in the past and whether their prices are in line with other dive ops offering the same service. Their business is exactly that - theirs.

At the end of the day, had the dive op simply increased the fee to pay the deck hand, the trip would have ended up costing me more because I STILL would have provided a tip. But, that's just me.

 

[FuAn]

At the end of the day, had the dive op simply increased the fee to pay the deck hand, the trip would have ended up costing me more because I STILL would have provided a tip. But, that's just me.

But then a tip would actually be a tip and not a hidden part of the cost used to blackmail customers. And the workers maybe would actually get a tip and not just a ****** substitute to their ****** maybe not even existing salary...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Again, none of my business what the dive op's specific arrangement with the deck hand is. It's not my place to tell anyone else, including a dive op, how to run their business. No two business, even within the same industry, are run the same. And that's regardless of whether they're in the US our outside the US. In fact, I didn't even know the arrangement between the dive op and the deck hand even existed. . . .

I understand completely. Again, I'm not really talking about any specific instance, such as your trip. I don't expect customers to try to buck the system or stick their noses in their dive ops' business. Not at all.

More generally, though, systems don't change unless people want them to. It's hard to change any system, but maybe over time it can be changed if enough people are in favor of it. I'm not much of an activist, but I would like to see tipping become less confusing. Judging from the comments in these tipping threads, others may feel similarly. The tipping culture in the US may involve a number of factors that we as citizens at least theoretically have some say about, such as the minimum wage laws. If a dive op that has to pay a deck hand minimum wage can't turn a profit because the deck hand's services are in reality worth less than the minimum wage to customers, and the dive op resorts to encouraging the deck hand to earn less than minimum wage by "working only for tips," then maybe this practice of "working only for tips" has become a dive op's way to avoid paying minimum wage to a person who is not an unpaid volunteer, not an independent contractor, but more like an employee? If so, I see something wrong with that. I believe rules should be followed, and if the rules don't work, then fix them rather than have these sorts of underground or gray-area economies where people "work only for tips" and their status under labor laws is anyone's guess.

Don't get me wrong--I don't plan to stop tipping any time soon. I just hope to keep the conversation going. Sometimes it seems like these tipping threads never end, but it is interesting that in every thread we see people chime in with a negative opinion of what tipping has become in the US. Maybe there is hope if we at least keep talking about it?

 

[rivers]

So glad to be in the UK. I'm currently on a week long liveaboard (ish) trip in Scapa Flow (Orkney Islands, just north of the Scottish Highlands). Cost for the week: £480, including accommodation, air fills (nitrox/trimix extra), unlimited coffee/tea, soup in between dives, and lunch after the dives. We are on our own for dinner, but can use the galley on board or frequent any of the pubs in Stromness or the rest of the island. My total additional cost for gas only will be roughly £50 for a 3 twinset fills of 32% and half a stage of 50% (shared my ali 7 with someone else on board, so we're splitting the cost of the fill). It is pretty much no frills, we get a brief about 30 minutes before each dive as to where the shot is located, and any features of interest. Once we get back on board, our sets get filled with whatever gas we have asked for. Rinse and repeat. Besides, my gas and transport costs to get here, my total additional cost is nothing. No tipping as the crew are paid an actual wage. And that's how it should be.

 

[FuAn]

And £480 is ~650$ cost of living isn't really cheap in the UK either...

 

[rivers]

And £480 is ~650$ cost of living isn't really cheap in the UK either...

Just looked at the cost for a liveaboard in the Florida Keys. $2450. That's a hell of a lot more than the $650 I paid. And that doesn't include the tip. So a 10% tip will add another $245 to the cost of the trip. A three day weekend adventure is $950. Again, tip not included. Okay, so it includes dinner, but I paid £20 for ingredients for my dinners this week.

And, just as an FYI, the cost of living is a hell of a lot cheaper in the UK than it is in the US. I should know, I've lived in both countries.

 

[FuAn]

I'd seriously challenge that... UK vs US price index shows UK being 13% higher cost of living. While I have been moving around the globe I very well know cost of living also very much depends on personal perspective and priorities but I am very very confident to say the claim that cost of living is a hell lot cheaper in the UK is far off... Bristol ie is above Miami on the cost of living index btw!

 

[INQuarryDiver]

At this point I think the tipping percentages are getting way out of line for almost services. Especially since most service is below average.

 

[J322Y]

Just looked at the cost for a liveaboard in the Florida Keys. $2450. That's a hell of a lot more than the $650 I paid. And that doesn't include the tip. So a 10% tip will add another $245 to the cost of the trip. A three day weekend adventure is $950. Again, tip not included. Okay, so it includes dinner, but I paid £20 for ingredients for my dinners this week.

And, just as an FYI, the cost of living is a hell of a lot cheaper in the UK than it is in the US. I should know, I've lived in both countries.

I'm booked on the Cuan Law in BVI next June (hopefully boat is ok) for $2850. I wonder what boat is worth almost that in the Keys...

 

[DanielRJones]

I'd seriously challenge that... UK vs US price index shows UK being 13% higher cost of living. While I have been moving around the globe I very well know cost of living also very much depends on personal perspective and priorities but I am very very confident to say the claim that cost of living is a hell lot cheaper in the UK is far off... Bristol ie is above Miami on the cost of living index btw!

That is total crap since it puts a tv in with housing which also contains rent and broadband. Living in UK is going to put the price of electronics higher by 40% but you don't buy a tv every month unlike rent which is 72% more expensive in miami. Will run some maths on it now