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Discussion in 'Liveaboards and Charter Boats' started by tfleming23, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Jcp2

    Jcp2 Literally virtually diving ScubaBoard Supporter

    It’s all fine to fight injustice by not tipping because it’s easy on the pocketbook, and even easier on the conscience, but it does nothing for the person who just provided you the service who is dependent on the tip for wages. Is that fair to them?
  2. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
    If no one tips, as it is here, no one will rely on them for their wage, and their employee will be forced to pay them a proper wage.
    Tipping is really ruining the relationship between employer and employees. I also find quite bad that the customer has to even worry about the whole matter, which is the original problem of this thread.
    Why the hell should I, the customer, become the evaluator of the performances of the crew? Evaluating other people is, for me, much more stressful than being evaluated.
    Whenever in my work I get the duty of providing comparative evaluations of co-workers or lower-level employees, I almost do not sleep by night for the tension of being fair and to evaluate them properly. Making an injustice to someone would be really bad for me, much worst than receiving an injustice.
    The tip system makes each customer forced to always perform evaluations, and to tip according to a "score" given to the service received. Particularly when I am on holidays, I really do not want to evaluate anyone else.
    If a trip has a cost, and I cannot afford it, I don't go.
    If they ask me for a cost which I can afford, I go, and I do not want to think to anything else. The idea to have to pay more, depending on how good I evaluate the service received, is really causing stress to me...
  3. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
    And the other thing which disturbs me about tipping is that this is all money which is not taxed properly. When you pay through a normal invoice, the VAT is applied automatically and goes immediately to the tax office. And people getting a wage from it will be taxed proportionally to their income.
    The taxes are the money that allow me to have an excellent public health system, substantially free, a good pension system, good schools, good universities, roads, railways, public transportation, police, firefighters, etc.
    And my own wage also comes from taxes. So when I see money flowing without invoice, without VAT, and very probably without income taxes, this disturbs me profoundly. It is a way of not paying taxes, something very close to a crime...
    Shasta_man likes this.
  4. Michael Jastrzebski

    Michael Jastrzebski Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Oakland, CA
    Angelo, in my trip last year to Italy I noticed general trend - tipping in Europe in restaurants is very limited, people tip but they leave small change. But then the service itself is very bluh.. I have never seen such poor service in the US as I saw in Italy. Also, since we are on Italy, for some reason I am getting better Italian food in the US than in Italy, this shocked me and I was taken in Italy to some of the best restaurants known to my italian friends. Take it for whatever it is worth - my observation only, it is getting off topic.
    FreeFlyFreak likes this.
  5. carobinsoniv

    carobinsoniv Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Moultrie, Georgia
    Regardless of where you are - "When in Rome..."
  6. Angelo Farina

    Angelo Farina Marine Scientist

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Parma, ITALY
    I cannot deny this, in most places here the service is really low level.
    Regarding food quality, there is a different explanation, but this would be off topic here. Tipping could improve the service, instead cannot do anything on the (perceived) quality of food.
    Since more than 10 years, however, also here there is a general tendency to "change the things", introducing methods which stimulate workers, at any level, to work more and better, for getting an economic benefit.
    This is happening even in public administrations (where I work), now we are continuously evaluated, and our wage is increased only for the "best ones".
    While I understand the reasons for this tendency, I also see the negative effect of this strategy. As said, my co-workers are not anymore my mates, they are now my competitors. I very much preferred as it was 15 or 20 years ago. We were all more lazy workers, but much more happy, and all friend together.
    Was the productivity lower and the service we were providing to our customers worst? Yes of course.
    But everyone was happier and was living more relaxed, with better human relationships. No one was really expecting that we had to work very hard, at the best of our capabilities (or even beyond them). Life was not competitive. Better, easier, relaxed...
    Now, instead, this method of rewarding "the best ones" is creating a lot of friction, pushing everyone to his limits and beyond, everyone is expecting that you always work at 110%, and the next year it must be 115%, and so on.
    No more time for the family, for going to the cinema, for enjoying your life. A continuous test, you are always under examination.
    And for what?
    For providing a "better " service? Is that so important, to sacrifice our happiness and freedom for it? We are employees, not slaves...
    But I fear we are going seriously off topic, sorry for that!
  7. ontdiver

    ontdiver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Ottawa, Ontario
    A very spirited and relevant discussion.
  8. CWK

    CWK Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Probably on a LOB somewhere
    I just stepped off the Nautilus Explorer today after a 9 day trip to Socorro. My single room cost about $4,200. A letter from Nautilus that was left in my cabin before check out suggested a tip of $250 to $350.
    diveUAE and chillyinCanada like this.
  9. runsongas

    runsongas Great White

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: California - Bay Area
    Not every country does taxes like Europe and in the case where tips are paid by card rather than cash, taxes are being remitted by the liveaboard company usually.
  10. <*)))><

    <*)))>< Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Here
    My 2 psi:

    For the last 10 - 15 years on most of the flights I've been on I feel the the airlines should have tipped/compensated me.

    I've tipped as high as 25% on some liveaboards and was happy to do it. It was earned and deserved.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts Angelo. Thats a different perspective, and worth consideration. Competition has pro's and con's as does cooperation. Both taken to extreme can be toxic.
    Hethen57 likes this.

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