To weight or not to weight

[BradentonSQ]

sounds about right

 

[Gdon]

Those who manage to get down to the absolute minimum weight still could run into a problem. Consider Diver Joe Pro who uses a Steel 119 ft3 HP tank. He has carefully tested his configuration and reduced his weighting to the bare minimum that still allows him to do a safety stop with an “empty” tank (500 PSI). But on his last dive he had a problem and ended up draining his tank completely dry (maybe buddy breathing during part of the ascent). Now he is doing a safety stop using the dive boat’s emergency regulator suspended 15 feet below the boat (or still buddy breathing) since he has NO gas left at all.

At 500 PSI his tank held 17.3 ft3 of gas and that gas weighed about 1.4 lbs. So he is now underweighted by 1.4 lbs because he truly emptied his tank (down to zero PSI). Maybe he can maintain the stop anyway but if he is panic and breathing too deep he might just go straight to the surface without a safety stop.

IMHO you should add a little extra weight to ensure you can hold a safety stop with a truly and fully empty tank while breathing heavier than normal. The exact amount will depend on your configuration and tank.

 

[NAM001]

Those who manage to get down to the absolute minimum weight still could run into a problem. Consider Diver Joe Pro who uses a Steel 119 ft3 HP tank. He has carefully tested his configuration and reduced his weighting to the bare minimum that still allows him to do a safety stop with an “empty” tank (500 PSI). But on his last dive he had a problem and ended up draining his tank completely dry (maybe buddy breathing during part of the ascent). Now he is doing a safety stop using the dive boat’s emergency regulator suspended 15 feet below the boat (or still buddy breathing) since he has NO gas left at all.

At 500 PSI his tank held 17.3 ft3 of gas and that gas weighed about 1.4 lbs. So he is now underweighted by 1.4 lbs because he truly emptied his tank (down to zero PSI). Maybe he can maintain the stop anyway but if he is panic and breathing too deep he might just go straight to the surface without a safety stop.

IMHO you should add a little extra weight to ensure you can hold a safety stop with a truly and fully empty tank while breathing heavier than normal. The exact amount will depend on your configuration and tank.

your comment at first had a lot of merrit. then i thought. in your scenerio you have no air to inflate the bc to keep you on the surface. so its manual inflation. starting at the safety stop. easier said than done. especially if you are trying to keep depth till the surface. i think i would have to take the safety reg to the surface with me if i was any thing negative at all. if i could get to the stop being heavy. perhaps i would have to climb the reg hose line. stall at 5 ft and you have no air to go up and you cant get down ... nothing to do but ditch weight and then manual fill the bc on the surface. hoping the surface is not choppy. i think i will risk the being a pound light with the no air tank. if i am at a deeper depth and with out a buddy i have no option but to ditch weight just to get to the safety reg which wont happen cause you will pass safety do not collect air and proceed to the surface. and be really light.

any other thoughts any one.

 

[Gdon]

your comment at first had a lot of merrit. then i thought. in your scenerio you have no air to inflate the bc to keep you on the surface. so its manual inflation. starting at the safety stop. easier said than done. especially if you are trying to keep depth till the surface.

Unless it’s really bad it should not be too hard to manually inflate assuming you have a reg to breath from, and this is a skill worth practicing both above and below the surface in case your inflator malfunctions or you run out of air.

i think i would have to take the safety reg to the surface with me if i was any thing negative at all.

If possible, I would ALWAYS go all the way to the surface with a good reg (the boat's or my buddies) and keep the reg with air in my mouth at least until I am positive and close to the boat, on a tag line, etc.. if it's the boats reg and I can't get a buddy to take me to the surface then I might have to cut the weight and then pay for it!. I guess I would even climb the ladder with it. It might get tangled, but if I fall and its not tangled at least I still have air to breath. Sounds more and more like a situation to avoid, doesn't it!

if i could get to the stop being heavy. perhaps i would have to climb the reg hose line. stall at 5 ft and you have no air to go up and you cant get down ... nothing to do but ditch weight and then manual fill the bc on the surface. hoping the surface is not choppy. i think i will risk the being a pound light with the no air tank. if i am at a deeper depth and with out a buddy i have no option but to ditch weight just to get to the safety reg which wont happen cause you will pass safety do not collect air and proceed to the surface. and be really light.any other thoughts any one.

And there’s the core of my argument. I am more afraid of a too rapid ascent than any other possible problem, including running out of gas (or going below 500 psi). And at my age I am religious about safety stops. I have had a problem maintaining a stop because I was breathing too hard after fighting strong current. If I could get my breathing to slow it would have been easier to hold the stop. I consider 1-2 lbs more (than the otherwise bare minimum of lead) to be an insurance policy. There is a price for that policy however so your mileage may vary and my way is not right for everyone.

 

[NAM001]

Unless it’s really bad it should not be too hard to manually inflate assuming you have a reg to breath from, and this is a skill worth practicing both above and below the surface in case your inflator malfunctions or you run out of air.



If possible, I would ALWAYS go all the way to the surface with a good reg (the boat's or my buddies) and keep the reg with air in my mouth at least until I am positive and close to the boat, on a tag line, etc.. if it's the boats reg and I can't get a buddy to take me to the surface then I might have to cut the weight and then pay for it!. I guess I would even climb the ladder with it. It might get tangled, but if I fall and its not tangled at least I still have air to breath. Sounds more and more like a situation to avoid, doesn't it!



And there’s the core of my argument. I am more afraid of a too rapid ascent than any other possible problem, including running out of gas (or going below 500 psi). And at my age I am religious about safety stops. I have had a problem maintaining a stop because I was breathing too hard after fighting strong current. If I could get my breathing to slow it would have been easier to hold the stop. I consider 1-2 lbs more (than the otherwise bare minimum of lead) to be an insurance policy. There is a price for that policy however so your mileage may vary and my way is not right for everyone.

i believe i agree with you on #2 number one is difficult on a hang line with a reg on it because you cant get a filled bc with out going up. an anchor line would be workable. number three may or may not be feasable depending on other things. i think it would only work if you had a buddy assisting or a safety reg or a dropline. with that i would prefer to be light and pay the piper.
other than that the scenerio is as you said a most undesirable one and as that, there is probably no workagble best way. only the less of a choice of evils to pick from. which was my underlining thought when i posted. when i an weighted i am neut at 300 i plan to end at 500. i am using lp95' steels. that way i am a lb heave at 500 but i have bc air to use. if i get light there is more going on than than a low tank. failed spg ect. other than the weight i agree with your #3 fiully. i too have the age issues you mention.

thanks

 

[BLUESEASONBALI]

Firstyl, great thread, obviously got a lot of people interested since its been running since 2005!! And secondly, fully agree with what your saying. It is very unfortunate to see that many instructors massively overweight their students just to make their lives easier when trying to conduct skills especially in Open Water Environments. Really Buoyancy is the key skill to really drill into any new diver, not only will it make them enjoy their diving more and more, but will also lead to the preservation of our dive sites. If you ask me, all skills in the Open Water course should be able to be performed whilst neutrally buoyant by at least dive 3&4. If your telling me that a student has to settle themselves on the bottom of the ocean to clear water from their mask every time; do they have the necessary skills to be able to dive comfortably with out professional supervision on subsequent dives? I think not!

Anyways,

great post, Keep it up!

Blue Season Bali

Diving Bali | Dive Courses Bali

 

[Black Water Diver]

This was an excellent analogy of practicing greatmbouyancy techniques. The one thing to keep in mind, it isn't a race. Take your time. It is easy to throw on extra uneeded weigth and totally unecessary, take your time. Sometimes it may seem like it is hard to descend, but maybe at first it just takes a little extra time for everything to jell! The BCD is not an elevator but more of a rope to help you along. Everythimg you wear or change or maybe even that big been burrito you ate at lunch maight change your bouyancy slightly. Remember go back to basics and practice those PPB skills, enjoy the ride!

Patrick J. Wirtz PADI Instructor

 

[Black Water Diver]

I try to promote and sell all BCD's that are integrated, however I also try to sell a simpleold school weight belt witht it. The non ditchable weights are trim weights and should be treated as so. With an integrated system and a blet it gives youmor comfortabliltity. I have seen divers with so much weigth stiffed into their integrated systems it is almost scary and hard on equipmnet as well. Cold water divigis the worst as you do need extra weight. Putting on 20 25 lbs of weight in one area is tearign up your equipment as well as posing a hazard if your clips or velcro fail on your integrated. An old school weight belt and splitting weights and adjusting weights just seems logical

 

[jonathon50]

realise this is a tad late, i.e 2010 to be exact! sounds like your cooking on gas when it comes to thinking about your weighting! your right to lean forward when descending, it adds lift and lets you see where your going. instead of adding air to the BCS str8 away, take a big old slow deep breath 1st, that will slow u down AND give u an idea of your descent speed, add air, take another big old slow breath, chances are by now your pretty much neutral, or as near as damn it! split your weights between your weight belt and BCD, so if u do have to dump u prob aint going to lose all of it.

 

[gerard2004]

Good thread. I just finished my first dive after buying my own equipment and am playing around with my weighting for my set up. 180lbs, 5/4 wetsuit, 80/al tank, freshwater, I used 10 lbs the other day. Could not sink on own and had to "swim down" initially. Dive went well but I surfaced at the end with 1500lbs and once I was topside I was a cork. Had I wanted to I could not have gone down again and I think I would have had a hard time holding a safety stop at 15 had I come up with less air. I was thinking of trying 14lbs next or would I be better just going up 2lbs at a time? I was pretty comfortable at 35feet and didn't need a lot of air in the bc but I did feel pretty light when I came up. Thoughts?