Tobermory - Diving Fatality

[Ontario Diver]

I'm sure Dan MacKay will re-inforce in me why I am still a poor diver in October on the DIRf course.
Steve

It is not that you are a poor or unsafe diver, it is that you have a chance to become a better diver.....

 

[Scuba_Steve]

It is not that you are a poor or unsafe diver, it is that you have a chance to become a better diver.....

Agreed, but trust me, I'm a poor diver

Steve

 

[pcosens]

I've read all of the posts here to date . . . .

Some observations from an old Tobermorry diver w/way too many hours on the Arabia.

1 As I stated elsewhere, a significant number of fatalities in Tobermory in the last years have NOT really been diving "disease" processes, rather they reflect typical NON DIVING causes of death. Older divers=more nondiving related "in water" deaths. Interesting wake up call for any male over the age of 30 - yes, 30. RESET your limits - not just depth!

2 I have personally fought current on the Arabia that made me PINE for the ST Lawrence - multiple current layers, often 180 degrees to each other with a shear zone of less than 10 feet, with the corresponding "S" curve in the down line. Quite an experience to fight your way down to find the line vibrating HORIZONTAL across the deck of the Arabia due to extreme flow (made the drop to the deck easier). HOLD ON!

3 I agree with the notion that many males dive the Arabia to thrill seek. A retired T.O. shop owner once said that people dove the Arabia so they could "tilt at their windmills", "dance with death" - what else made their lives exciting? (I've loosly transcribed his quote)

4 ANY amount of training will NOT improve this situation. Good divers will do the necessary work-up diving to safely explore at depth. The rest of the herd will not. Quite frankly in all my years of charter captaining, diving, I've always maintained that diving is INCREDIBLY safe - look at all of the idiotic things people have done and lived to tell us about;-)

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Under Michael]

Scubagirl15. I hope that this is not your perception of GUE (DIR) divers. Let me tell you my story if you don't mind.

I was really was put off but what, in my perception was a sneering elitist group of divers called "DIR" divers. So much so that I swore I would never ever take a GUE course and had no interest whatsover in ever meeting anyone associated with the group. I had only ever heard of, spoken with, or watched in internet forums, on the internet these "DIR" divers.

Luckily, in my opinion, I stuck with my investigation and what I found is that the majority of the elitist sneering types you speak of seem to haunt the internet only and you will find on further examination that these divers usually have never taken (or passed) a single GUE course and even more surprisingly usually have a rediculously low number of dives.

They are called 10%'ers and they are in a large part responsible for the bad name this organization has received. They act holier than thou and love to profess their expert opinion and try and force it on others. Again. You will not find very many of these people in real life. You may run across someone who jsut passed their fundamentals and has a epiphany and gets a little overly enthusiastic but you really don't run across the flat out rude people in real life (No more than the number that are just naturally that way anyways).

What I have found is it is an organization of caring and commited instructors, two of which I have had training from first hand, and they simply are commited to giving you a very high quality education for the dollar spent. They have a mission statement that they stick to and they do not compromise and pass you on a course if you don't deserve it just to please you. They will continue to mentor you after your training and you will fnid they will bend over backwards to help you succeed at your goals.

The training doesn't speak to everyone and that is fine too. It is simply more than a lot of people want and that is cool. In my ideal world I'd love to see "DIR" divers everywhere but I also know that just won't happen and you won't see me outside your house in an orange robe playing bells and singing songs of praise about Jarrod Jablonkski or George Irvine either!Just to let you know the majority of GUE divers also wish the holier than thou's would can it, stop preaching, shut up and dive. Speaking of which I am off to bed because I am going tomorrow to do just that!

Hopefully your impressions of GUE are not completely ruined. We are nice people too. Well some would argue I am not but then they've only ever met me on the interenet haven't they...

Excellent post d33ps1x, that talented expression will likely have more than a few divers thinking.
UM

 

[sparky30]

Ya wanna come Spark?

Thought about it.. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment.. Its not forgotten, just postponed.. Courses are fun.. They always point out how little I really know..
At the moment diving has to take a back seat to some other stuff that's going on...Maybe next year.

 

[snuggle]

if you dont mind me asking ..why is it that threads get off topic real fast when someone dies diving?it goes from condolences to opinions then to something else...

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Because we're like squirrels. We jump from branch to branch to branch, and the next thing you know, we're two trees over.

No biggie.

 

[snuggle]

lol never heard anyone put it that way before ..but so true

 

[diverindeep]

Are people getting carried away?

There have been a lot of deaths on the Arabia but that, much like the Marsh in Kingston, is mostly because it is a very popular wreck that entices people who shouldn't be in 110 feet of lakewater to go visit her. We often forget that diving up here most days is considered extreme diving elsewhere in the world. It's dark, it's cold, and the gear considerations make it doubly hard. Throw in a low vis day with the narcosis of 110 feet, a single 80 cylinder with a crap fill, and a not so experienced diver and you have a very potent recipe for disaster time and again. It's no wonder so many people die on the thing.

People talk about having advanced certification. Big deal. At least one agency we all know of will allow a diver to immediately after completing your 4 open water dives do your 5 "advanced" dives right away. So now you have a diver with a grand total of 11 dives (only 1 below 60 feet) able to do the Arabia and other wrecks in that range. That is ill equipped. It takes time to develop the problem solving and gas management abilities needed to handle an issue at this depth. That's it. You just need time in the water that a lot of people don't have before going there.

Advanced certification is an ill concieved cash grab that is fed buy a dive shop and charter industry that enjoys the $250 or so plus fills plus equipment rentals plus charters to take you on 5 guided dives over two days with little or no in class time spent. It's probably the only course that shops make a clear cut GOOD profit on and it does nothing for the diver except allow them to step onto a boat and do an "advanced" dive that they probably shouldn't be doing. The arguement is that it is guided time in the water doing things you normally wouldn't do on your own for experience. True. But if you think you are at your safest and about to become an advanced diver by being jammed in the water with 5 or 6 other students and 1 instructor and 1 dm at 100 feet for one dive you are kidding yourself. It leaves you completely lacking to do a wreck in the 110 foot range.

The remainder of those deaths are as someone mentioned earlier,"old guy issues", due to health pre-conditions or poor health in general. Luckily the majority of deaths in the water seem to be due to poor health according to DAN reports. I mean luckily because it is not a diving related issue per say. The same things arguably could have happened playing hockey or some other sport. However, the sooner training agencies stop pushing the idea that diving is NOT a sport and doesn't require good health and fitness the sooner we will stop seeing so many deaths like heart attacks while diving.

I'm not talking about simply overweight. I am talking about healthy. There IS a difference. Big people can have the heart, lungs and muscle to handle a situation that a rake thin dude may not because he has a low cardio tolerance, precondition , etc. Everything is hunky dory until there IS a current or something and then these poor folks little couch potato hearts pop like a champagne cork after the championship game.

At the end of the day it is really up to the diver if they can and should do the dive. Let's face it. A lot of people get into diving because they consider it an extreme sport and WANT to push their boundaries and take risks. Others prefer getting all the training they can to offset the risk factors. The first group have just as much right and just as valid a reason as the second and as long as their attitude and outlook don't endanger the latter half then what is the big deal. They pay their insurance and taxes too. I personally like the training and have attempted to prepare myself as best I can physically, skillwise, knowledgewise and equipmentwise. Thats it really. I'm just not a risk taker and I picture myself dying an angry little (dirty) old man some far away day.

Just one vocal opinion. Others may and will vary.

well put..