Today's OW Course

[OldNSalty]

Yes, I do. And the reason I wanted to jump in the frst place was because I was scared of heights and scared of planes. Conquer your fears and live your dreams.

Correct, your desire to jump just has to be greater then your fear of heights. Actually, I found that jumping wasn't that bad as you are so high up it is almost unreal. I was much more scared climbing telephone poles then jumping...ok-highjack over.

 

[I Dive]

Is it possible that it may be something to the old: "is the instructor not the agency" ???

oh no... did I type that outloud?

Of course it's the Instructor and not the agency. We're talking about people. There is no level of regulation, oversight, or anything else that will force a person to do or be something they choose not to do or be, or to do something they don't want to do. The military can't even accomplish this and they own you when you join! They have better results than others but also have many failures. There are good Instructors and crappy Instructors with all agencies, just as there are in every other walk of life. You cannot mandate desire, self discipline, or personal accountability.

 

[InTheDrink]

Of course it's the Instructor and not the agency. We're talking about people. There is no level of regulation, oversight, or anything else that will force a person to do or be something they choose not to do or be, or to do something they don't want to do. The military can't even accomplish this and they own you when you join! They have better results than others but also have many failures. There are good Instructors and crappy Instructors with all agencies, just as there are in every other walk of life. You cannot mandate desire, self discipline, or personal accountability.

Do it for a living, get poor, watch your shop close down and come back to us with your reviewed analysis.

 

[I Dive]

Do it for a living, get poor, watch your shop close down and come back to us with your reviewed analysis.

 

[InTheDrink]

Sorry, maybe a bit off the hip there. I'm just saying that having a dive op isn't necessarily an easy life and having *wonderful* courses for a lot of ops just isn't an option. They need to make ends meet and competition is fierce.

If an instructor spent way over the odds on instruction in a lot of ops they'd get fired/chastised/replaced.

I'm sure a lot of instrcutors would LOVE to spend ages teaching their students. Econmic realities often dictate otherwise and they dictate to the minimum curriculum as per PADI. 4 days, as many students as possible.

Sure, it's ****. It's also reality for *most* ops and instructors out there. That I've seen at least. I'm only AOW and I can tell you I could easily teach people much better than your average OW course. But of course I'd be doing it on my own time and I've got relatively lots of money from my 'real' job.

Anyhow, sorry if I sounded narky. I just get bothered with ideals sometimes (probably cos I'm an idealist)

J

 

[gcbryan]

see that's what I thought. So how come there are so many NOT well trained divers out there?
Is it possible that it may be something to the old: "is the instructor not the agency" ???

oh no... did I type that outloud?

No, I don't think you dare type that out loud or that it's actually the student and not the instructor nor the agency.

 

[InTheDrink]

No, I don't think you dare type that out loud or that it's actually the student and not the instructor nor the agency.

(nearly) everyone works inside the constraints of the agency. They dictate what it takes to get 'qualified'. The major problem with agencies' 'view' is the length of time in which a person can become proficient with basic OW skills.

So I think it ridiculous to pin blame on an instructor for adhering to the rules.

And ridiculous to think 'customers' will know the difference in training.

The agencies have set the bar too low.

 

[Ana]

Yes, of course they do.

Yes, I do. And the reason I wanted to jump in the frst place was because I was scared of heights and scared of planes. Conquer your fears and live your dreams.

Correct, your desire to jump just has to be greater then your fear of heights. Actually, I found that jumping wasn't that bad as you are so high up it is almost unreal. I was much more scared climbing telephone poles then jumping...ok-highjack over.

Well... I don't have to wonder anymore then.

 

[john1bl]

Well... Lets take this the the extreme just for the sake of argument. If the classed get to short and turn out suck horrible divers then the boat captains will require more certification or not recognize certification from Z or Y group. This will lead to a demise of the universal certification and the agency then will have to figure out how to get credibility back. The resorts will certify for that resort only and the LDS will certify for that shop only. This will Kill the SCUBA industry and only leave commercial dive schools.
I think that the certification agency's are trying to strike a balance between what is needed and what the people will pay for and do. I think that the early training in the 60's was overkill and what we have now is underkill. but the lawyers have yet to make the scene to correct the problem in this case. A lot of divers families have money to burn on legal sharks.

 

[InTheDrink]

Well... I don't have to wonder anymore then.

Sleep tight so - that's where I'm going right now!

I'm not a water baby and not a very strong swimmer. I have however learned to be very comfortable in the water (sometimes too much so). It can be learned. We can all be better than we believed we could be. I'm living testament to that - I always thought I'd ne **** and with training and focus, I'm only crap!