top 3 dive sites in Oahu

[oahu_diver]

I would agree that it's who you know (and more importantly, how well they know you). It's a liability issue. The captain of the boat is responsible for your safety. If he doesn't know you (or your dive experience), why would he just let you take off in the open ocean? He's paying that dive guide to take care of you while you're underwater. So, if you want the freedom, then you have to put in the time and earn it.

By the way, Ocean Concepts does not own their own boat. Although Ocean Concepts only books divers on that one boat, the boat itself is no longer Ocean Concepts exclusive. The story around the island is that Ocean Concepts doesn't have enough business to occupy enough seats to make the boat profitable. So the owner opened it up to other shops. There is another boat operator on the west side. Captain Bruce (name of the company, not the actual captain) also dives the west side daily and has a nicer boat and a MUCH nicer staff. Aaron's will dive west side..but not daily.

 

[fdog]

I would agree that it's who you know (and more importantly, how well they know you). It's a liability issue. The captain of the boat is responsible for your safety. If he doesn't know you (or your dive experience), why would he just let you take off in the open ocean? He's paying that dive guide to take care of you while you're underwater. So, if you want the freedom, then you have to put in the time and earn it.

By the way, Ocean Concepts does not own their own boat. Although Ocean Concepts only books divers on that one boat, the boat itself is no longer Ocean Concepts exclusive. The story around the island is that Ocean Concepts doesn't have enough business to occupy enough seats to make the boat profitable. So the owner opened it up to other shops. There is another boat operator on the west side. Captain Bruce (name of the company, not the actual captain) also dives the west side daily and has a nicer boat and a MUCH nicer staff. Aaron's will dive west side..but not daily.

Thanks for the pointers about Ocean Concepts & Captain Bruce. It is nice to get unfiltered advice from the locals.

I'd disagree about the liability issue & dive guides & having to put in the time. There are lots of locations with far more difficult & brutal diving conditions where a dive guide is a nonexistent thing.

Like California. Or British Columbia. New Jersey or Scapa Flow. Get on the boat, ride to the dive site, get a quick site briefing. From that point on, you're on your own, even if the Captain has never seen you before.

So it's a local cultural thing I'm sure, driven a lot by the need to run back to the dock and get another load of paying clients. And, the overwhelming majority of divers that show up are folks that have never been diving since their cert class 10 years ago, and those folks do need herding, so it's just plain easier to treat everyone like they have no skillz.

<shrugs> Not hating on the attitude, it is what it is. We will spend our $ someplace without it, though.

Thanks again for the local knowledge - if there was a boat that dove the same way a California boat does, we'd be all over it.


All the best, James

 

[oahu_diver]

Yeah, it definitely could be that the captain wants to get back to pick up the next herd or just end the trip quickly. I would agree with that. I would also agree that it has to do with inexperienced divers being the majority of the clients here. This is definitely a tourism driven place. The returning customers that live here are mostly military and not really "locals". Most dive shops target the military because they know that soldiers have money after coming back from deployments. Most real local Hawaiians either have their own boat, know someone who does...or spends their time on the surface surfing or paddling or some other water activity. It's rare to see a Hawaiian on a dive charter.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Weeelll...Alex had to sell his boat, what, a year ago? Maybe a bit more. So up to a year ago, at least.

....

Based on your comments, I would have to assume there is no longer any reason for us to include Hawaii as a dive destination.

Were you allowed to dive on your own the first time you dove from the Elysium?

When did you make your first dive from that boat? ...first dive off the leash from that boat? How many different dive sites did you dive from that boat?

As stated in my first post here, if you are (were) one of the privileged the normal rules don't (didn't) apply.

Seems like a small data sample from which to then write off an entire State. Kauai in the summer has really cool shore diving; even Sheraton Caverns is in some of our shore quivers. And with the right operator Niihau is kind of our little Galapagos; would you only go to Galapagos if you could only dive on your own?

There is also the Kona Aggressor; I'm of the opinion that a level headed, friendly, experienced diver could make some pretty cool "off the leash" dives during a week with them.

Here off Maui I have scootered to the Carthaginian and all along the Wailea coast, kayaked the Red Hill drift and to Molokini for both Reef's End and The Backside, and made great shore dives at Long Walk / Dragon's Tooth and Cliff House / Hawea Point (just to name a few).

Summertime off Oahu you would have to pay me to make me dive from a boat, and when I do make my summer visits Pat usually does. Even with the multitudes of tourists I love Pupukea, and there are a couple really cool long surface swim / kayak dives off the Drop Zone.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

So it's a local cultural thing I'm sure, driven a lot by the need to run back to the dock and get another load of paying clients. And, the overwhelming majority of divers that show up are folks that have never been diving since their cert class 10 years ago, and those folks do need herding, so it's just plain easier to treat everyone like they have no skillz.

....

if there was a boat that dove the same way a California boat does, we'd be all over it.

AFAIS there are very few Hawaii dive boats that are making second trips, so again back to your very small data sample.

I think it is way more likely that even experienced divers who dive in Hawaii without a guide end up not "thinking" they saw anything interesting and then bad mouthing Hawaii diving on internet forums.

By making all the diving guided diving the operators have much better enjoyment rates and internet reviews. Also, compared to how many "charter" tanks are dived annually in Hawaii vs how many "charter" tanks are dived annually in California, California sure seems to have a lot of dying divers.

 

[friscuba]

Definitely a liability issue. Don't know how it all started, but I suspect some years ago some dive operator in Hawaii took a serious look at his customers and thought it would be a good idea to have a guide in with them to help keep those who were a danger to themselves safe. The idea took hold, and now essentially it's a local standard.

What occurs in other parts of the world doesn't apply when virtually everyone here has guided dives. A few years back an Oahu dive operator had to pay a huge settlement on a fatality. They had an in water guide/instructor, I think it was a 1 to 8 ratio, and in court a Coast Guard representative came forward and said that in his opinion, with additional supervision this fatality might not have occurred.... end of case, settled. It's essentially the local standard now, and any operator that puts unsupervised divers in on their own probably is putting themselves at a greater risk if something bad ever does happen.

Hawaii gets a lot of divers of all skill levels, and it's tough to define that skill level by talking to them in some cases. I've had plenty of divers that have dove all over the place, talked a great story, then watched them struggle on the surface for 30 seconds trying to get down because they didn't dump the air in their BCD. Let's face it, that's a pool session #1 skill, and they're not getting it right... if that's not ingrained, it's pretty easy to imagine there might be some other issues from time to time underwater. An in water guide can be some peace of mind for an operator, may or may not help when it comes to real serious stuff, but definitely helps with a lot of the little things that can pop up on any given day. As mentioned earlier, familiarity with the diver can possibly make for laxer guided dive guidelines with some operators. The cold water destionations probably see, in general, a set of divers with a bit higher skill levels on their charters than might be found on a typical Hawaiian charter.

Keep in mind, that bottom time limitations aren't necessarliy the same all over the state. I've been on plenty of boats in Maui and the Big Island that'll let you do an hour, some plenty more, getting divers to the line as they approach 500psi and continuing to dive with those who are good on air. I wouldn't write off Hawaii as a dive destination due to bottom time limitations you've experienced in Oahu.... the diving and the operators change from island to island.

 

[scottitheduck]

Time for me to chime in.....

On all of our charters, we will be in the water with you for your dive. That doesn't mean that if you prove your level of ability and comfort we won't give you a longer leash.

Having your own surface marker, proper skills in the water and demonstrating to me that you know your tables/computers goes a long way. I can generally tell within the first 5 minutes of a dive how close and on it I will need to be.

It is unfortunate that more "Advanced" divers aren't really ready to roll out on their own. This happens for various reasons from poor training, to lack of experience. Again, if you are good in the water, the ocean is yours. We are there to show you cool stuff, help you get great photos and are around to bail you out of any sticky situation.

Finally..... our dive club gets a very long leash. Depending on how many dives you have logged with us it often goes down like this. "Guys, we are tied up on the Seatiger...... the sand is at 120' and you have all been here before. Be safe, have fun and watch your bottom time and air."

Too much typing..... let's go diving.

G

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

The well informed Hawaii dive operators I have had in depth conversations with regarding the guided diving in Hawaii have tried not to disclose exactly why every recreational diving charter operator in Hawaii is "theoretically" only offering guided diving, but if you read between the lines, it is due to the the "open to interpretation" wording of the Federal OSHA regulations adopted by Hawaii as Hawaii Regulations.

HAWAII ADMINISTRATIVE RULES

§1910.401 Scope and application.
(a) Scope.

(1) This subpart (standard) applies to every place of employment within the waters of the United States, or within any State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Johnston Island, the Canal Zone, or within the Outer Continental Shelf lands as defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act (67 Stat. 462, 43 U.S.C. 1331), where diving and related support operations are performed.

(2) This standard applies to diving and related support operations conducted in connection with all types of work and employments, including general industry, construction, ship repairing, shipbuilding, shipbreaking and longshoring. However, this standard does not apply to any diving operation:
(i) Performed solely for instructional purposes, using open-circuit, compressed-air SCUBA and conducted within the no-decompression limits;
(ii) Performed solely for search, rescue, or related public safety purposes by or under the control of a governmental agency; or
(iii) Governed by 45 CFR Part 46 (Protection of Human Subjects, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services) or equivalent rules or regulations established by another federal agency, which regulate research, development, or related purposes involving human subjects.
(iv) Defined as scientific diving and which is under the direction and control of a diving program containing at least the following elements:

(3) Alternative requirements for recreational diving instructors and diving guides . Employers of recreational diving instructors and diving guides are not required to comply with the decompression-chamber requirements specified by paragraphs (b)(2) and (c)(3)(iii) of §1910.423 and paragraph (b)(1) of § 1910.426 when they meet all of the following conditions:
(i) The instructor or guide is engaging solely in recreational diving instruction or dive-guiding operations;
(ii) The instructor or guide is diving within the no-decompression limits in these operations;
(iii) The instructor or guide is using a nitrox breathing-gas mixture consisting of a high percentage of oxygen (more than 22% by volume) mixed with nitrogen;
(iv) The instructor or guide is using an open-circuit, semi-closed-circuit, or closed-circuit self- contained underwater breathing apparatus (SCUBA); and
(v) The employer of the instructor or guide is complying with all requirements of this subpart (b) Application in emergencies.

An employer may deviate from the requirements of this standard to the extent necessary to prevent or minimize a situation which is likely to cause death, serious physical harm, or major environmental damage, provided that the employer:

(1) Notifies the Area Director, Occupational Safety and Health Administration within 48 hours of the onset of the emergency situation indicating the nature of the emergency and extent of the deviation from the prescribed regulations; and

(2) Upon request from the Area Director, submits such information in writing. (c) Employer obligation.

The employer shall be responsible for compliance with:

(1) All provisions of this standard of general applicability; and

(2) All requirements pertaining to specific diving modes to the extent diving operations in such modes are conducted.

Among the hard to interpret regulations for recreational charter diving are wording such as;

Dive profiles. A depth-time profile, including when appropriate any breathing gas changes, shall be maintained for each diver during the dive including decompression.

(a) General.

Employers engaged in SCUBA diving shall comply with the following requirements, unless otherwise specified.

(b) Limits.

SCUBA diving shall not be conducted:
(1) At depths deeper than 130 fsw;
(2) At depths deeper than 100 fsw or outside the no-decompression limits unless a decompression chamber is ready for use;
(3) Against currents exceeding one (1) knot unless line-tended; or
(4) In enclosed or physically confining spaces unless line-tended.

(c) Procedures.

(1) A standby diver shall be available while a diver is in the water.
(2) A diver shall be line-tended from the surface, or accompanied by another diver in the water in continuous visual contact during the diving operations.
(3) A diver shall be stationed at the underwater point of entry when diving is conducted in enclosed or physically confining spaces.
(4) A diver-carried reserve breathing gas supply shall be provided for each diver consisting of: (i) A manual reserve (J valve); or (ii) An independent reserve cylinder with a separate regulator or connected to the underwater breathing apparatus.
(5) The valve of the reserve breathing gas supply shall be in the closed position prior to the dive.

Depending on how you read the regs, it seems a tri-mix instructor using tri-mix can not be an employee of the boat the dives are being made from; perhaps only a "business owner" and not even an employee of a shore based dive operator.

(starting page 13 of the above linked document there is a definition of "divers meaning employees" for recreational charter instructor / guides, but above page 13 there is no definition of the words diver or divers as being employees)

6. Mixing and Analyzing the Breathing Gas

(a) The employer must ensure that:
(i) Properly trained personnel mix nitrox-breathing gases, and that nitrogen is the only inert gas used in the breathing-gas mixture;

 

[santy2506]

Scottie...glad you took the time to chime in.

Do you operate your own boat? If not, you're not really responsible for anything. I believe the master of the vessel, the captain, is responsible for returning to port with the same number of people as when the boat left port. Captains take on a responsibility that most people don't come close to realizing. Captains must decide if even the instructor/divemaster/dive guide is not only qualified, but mature enough to dive on their own and in charge of a group. Unfortunately, I've seen many "instructors" who aren't even good divers. If you do operate your own boat, good on you...you've chosen to take responsibility and liability for your own actions.

 

[santy2506]

sorry...it seems we've drifted (no pun intended) off topic a little.