TTL or not to TTL?

[PriusDrIVER]

Alright, I am trying to get more ideas of whether its worth investing in TTL or not. I have read many, many threads on here and other forums but am still torn.

I am comfortable running my dSLR in 100% manual mode, though I typically use Av or Tv. I never use manual mode on a flash though, as without metering that is a bit more complicated in my experience. Is it easier UW? I would imagine it is easier than on land because your subject is more, well, predictable. If you leave the surface with a macro lens you are pretty much shooting macro for the entire dive. Its not like you are going to be swapping from a 10mm ultra-wide to a 105mm in the middle of a "shoot". And since its macro, the ambient light doesn't play much.

How much time is spent adjusting the strobes and such in a manual setup? How frequently do you have to change it for each composition? Should I just start out manual and if I hate it deal with the conversion after the fact? Is it difficult adjusting 2 strobes independently?

Most of my diving will be in the cold waters of the pacific northwest, all of that diving is done in a dry suit with dry gloves...so they aren't the most dexterous...so thats something to keep in mind. With the water the way it is, I also doubt I would be doing that much wide angle...I can't say for sure, but I'd predict that the 100mm macro would be mounted 90+% of the time. I'm not sure how long it will even be before I fork over for the dome port for the wide angle.

As my other thread indicates, I have an Ikelite housing for my Canon 20D but am not looking to buy Ike strobes. I am pretty certain that I could modify the housing and add a Heinrich (sp?) or the Sea&Sea TTL converter to support the Sea&Sea strobes that I am likely to end up using. Ikelite housings have nice prices, but their strobes are bulky and less pocket book friendly.

Help?!?

 

[dhaas]

PriusDriver,

If you own the Ikelite 20D housing WITH eTTL already, it doens't make much sense to buy a different brand of TTL converter (plus different strobes) and expect it to work better......I have no idea what strobes you think will deliver accurate TTL for less money than even a tiny pair of Ikelite DS51 units.

Don't take my written word for it, go to IKELITE Underwater Systems and look under "photos" for my name. Not bragging, just telling it like it is. My web site, David Haas Underwater Photography has tons of photo examples, too, and all these were shot on TTL! TTL is a tool, not an end all. Ikelite housing circuitry allows you to shoot WITH TTL or MANUALLY (where you cans screw up your exposures much faster trying to out-think the camera and strobe "talking" to each other for a higher percentage of properly exposed photos.)

Go to Wetpixel and read Norbert Wu's latest report on his 3 Nikon D200 housings. Read closely his comments on how Ikelite curcuitry and iTTL (Nikon's moniker) improves his ability to get the shot. He makes his living at this.......Also read his real world use comments about the other convertors.......Food for thought......

Finally, Av mode on your Canon 20D will default to an AVAILABLE LIGHT calculated shutter speed, usually too slow. TTL DOES work in "M" mode where you set both parameters and the strobe and camera "talk" to each other trying to put out more or less strobe light depending on distance to subject, f-stop selected and ISO. Shutter speed does nothing except control background lightness or darkness and possible blur if setting your shutter speed to 1/30 or slower.

Also, go to Digital Diver Network - Your source for digital underwater photography information! and read my article on TTL and how it works in their "library". Maybe this will add more details than I have given here.....

Good luck!

dhaas

 

[PriusDrIVER]

David,

Thank you for the info, I greatly appreciate it. I hadn't stumbled across the info you suggested I read, it was very useful. I enjoyed looking through your images as well, were most of these taken with your dRebel? If so, were those with the DS50/51 pictured on your site?

I was aware that Av mode defaults to available light, but in the advanced options on the camera you can force it to utilize a fixed 1/250 shutter with flash sync which modifies this behavior.

Would 2 DS51s be adequate for wide angle also? I could see that they would be for
macro, just was under the impression that a stronger strobe would be better for all around use. However, if the DS51 is strong enough...you are right, I won't be able to find a better price for a total setup. I was under the impression I would need DS125s, and 2 of those is comparable to the price of 2 YS110s and a TTL converter.

Looking at Ikelites specs on the DS51 they list the widest lens it would cover is 28mm, however my WA is 16-35 (effective)...would having 2 of them make up for that and just sacrificing shadow detail on the edges?

Thanks again for your insight and wisdom.

 

[bladephotog]

I used two DS50's in TTL mode for this shot here, which was taken with a 20D and 10-22 at the 10mm end. All the photos in my Kingson, Whitefish Point and Dunderberg galleries were taken with 2 DS-50's. They work fine but currently I'm using two DS125's, in TTL mode about 99% of the time. I think it works great. Less task loading for me even though it's not hard to shoot in manual mode.

 

[fisheyeview]

Prius,

Dave will never steer you wrong. I can't add anything more than what Dave has already told you. Good luck with your shooting.

 

[PriusDrIVER]

Thats making me feel better about the DS51. On another forum there was someone that had a DS51 on their Ikelite housing and using a Sea&Sea YS110 via optical strobe. How well would such a setup work? This would allow me to preserve the TTL with the Ikelite strobe and take advantage of a lower cost, higher power YS110.

 

[PriusDrIVER]

Also, i've heard that the target lights on the Sea&Sea are useful for diving in darker conditions as it frees you up from having to hold the camera and a dive light. Should I just look at a dedicated focus light to fill this role?

 

[dhaas]

PriusDriver,

Glad some of the info. helped. Andy Morrison, making a living as a PRO photog for a paper added some good comments, too. He and I actually live pretty close (I'm in Ohio) but have yet met face to face Hopefully soon!

First, yes, you can use 2 smaller strobes to light even a wide area. The photo I posted was taken with the much touted Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye which is super wide, even on a cropped sensor dSLR like ours (and yours.) Beam angle of the little puppies (Ikelite DS51) is 70-80 degrees (I use the diffusers ALL the time, but that's just my choice) and what most people forget is you are simply trying to light an AREA of your photo you want to have color......Not the whole dang area your lens "sees" including water, bottom in the background, blah, blah, blah

As Andy stated from his experience, I too use the DS125 singly or in pairs for a few reasons. DS51 color temp is 5700K, while the DS125 at 4800 K producing more saturated colors, especailly flesh tones. The DS125 modeling light also helps lock AF faster in dim waters and obviously for night diving.

I think you'd have a mess combining two brands, and likely two different color temps. So if price is a convern buy 2 DS51 units and pair of dual cords (shooters with corded systems should ALWAYS have a spare cord) and shoot with them for awhile. Then upgrade to a pair of DS125 units when your budget allows......

Just makes sense to utilize the Ikelite TTL circuitry versus manually setting flash output in today's world.

David Haas
David Haas Underwater Photography

P.S. - PriusDriver - I've been thorugh a progression of digital SLR cameras from the Nikon D100, the original 6.3 MP Digital Rebel, Rebel XT (a Pair I used for a year each had 10,000 clicks on them, and were still going strong), a friend's "borrowed" 20D and currently the lowly little but super capable Rebel XTi. All using decent lenses and shooting as much as time and travel allows. A LOT.......I try and be honest and dispel any rumor that people with good shots create them everytime they pull the trigger. It's work......But FUN work

 

[PriusDrIVER]

David,

Again, thanks greatly for your input. I think I'll go ahead and order a pair of Ds51. If it wasn't for a 'mistake' I already made I'd give you a call...but alas, I will have to buy the strobes from my LDS. I will definitely keep you in mind for upgrades though, or for lens ports.

Lastly, the more I look at photos like yours I realize that I really won't be shooting macro as much as I had thought about. I just picked up the macro lens with intention that it would be used heavily UW, and I'm sure I will use it a good bit. My main lens that I use is the Canon 24-105L F4 IS, which I love. I also have a Canon 100mm F2.8 macro (new), Canon 10-22mm and have a Canon 50mm f1.8 (and a 70-300 which has no place UW). Out of these, which do you think would be the better lenses to get ports for? Is there a port that would fit the 24-105? Its a versatile and very sharp lens even wide open, but perhaps it extends to much when zoomed. I know the 10-22mm is worth porting, how about the 50mm?

What is the best way to contact you regarding ordering Ikelite hardware?

Thanks again!

 

[liberato]

The main reason I like TTL is that usually I only get one chance at a shot (unless an underwater landscape). I was forced to use manual last year due to a defective TTL circuit board and I blew out most of the shots. Some photographers here have mastered the manual technique (Alcina comes to mind) but as far as I am concerned as a novice underwater photographer life is too short. It is nice to have manual control over aperture and shutter but I have no fondness for fooling with the flash. The DS125 with a TTL housing is marvelous!