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Two (and a half) more fusion/p-valve questions...

Discussion in 'Whites Manufacturing' started by djcheburashka, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
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    I did look in the other threads before asking...

    First, given the oversize nature of the underlayer, how did people decide the right position for the valve?

    Second, how did people cut through the dry core - burning? Scissors?

    Third, so ordinary "bathroom grade" silicone is what we use -- is there nothing we need to be careful about, no particular silicone to prefer?

    Thanks much.
     
  2. doctordry

    doctordry Angel Fish

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    First question...put the suit on and mark it where you want it.
    Second Question...depends on how big of a hole you have to cut...smaller holes (smaller than a quarter) use a hole punch the same size or burn with a suadering iron...just be very careful not to melt or scortch any other material.
    Second 1/2 question...Whites uses clear silicone. Use a small bead and when you screww the valve down do it finger tight...let it sit and cure somewhat for 20-30 minutes then give it the final crank.
     
  3. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    571
    69
    28
    Actually, it turned out to be vastly more complicated than that.

    I'm not fully happy with how mine ended up. The twin problems are that the outer skin has so many seams and different materials in different places, and the inner layer wants to shift during wear. It's highly non-obvious where it should go.

    I would just suggest to anyone else doing it, that they try to make the hole as close to the inner seam of the dry layer as they can, and be very careful when doing so about where it will end up on the outer layer.
     
  4. Skyjunky

    Skyjunky Barracuda

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    I laid on the ground and put it where if felt comfortable. Also if you look at the drycore there is a template already drawn on it. Their placement was right for me.
     
  5. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    571
    69
    28
    I didn't see that template... Where is it? What does it look like?
     
  6. DA Aquamaster

    DA Aquamaster Directional Toast ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: NC
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    I posted how I did it in one of the fusion review threads. It has a lot more detail.

    In short, remove the skin, put on the bladder on and then locate where the valve needs to go once everything gets settled.

    Make the hole, loosely install the valve, re-install the skin and then note where the valve is under the skin. Then mark the skin over the center of the valv, cut the hole and finish the install.

    With regard to valves, the OMS sweet pee is ideal for the fusion. The valve has the normal screw together connection but also has an outer screw off cover that covers the mushroom valve. The valve can be installed in the bladder, and then the outer cover can be screwed on to clamp the spandex or neoprene skin in place. Cut the hole in the spandex or tech skin undersize and stretch it over the male end of the fitting then screw the outer cover on to clamp it in place.

    The advantage of using that valve over the halcyon valve is that the skin can be removed without un installing the valve.

    Also, I chose to cut two rubber gaskets (inner tube works or an old latex seal). Cut them slightly larger than the valve diameter and glue in place with aquaseal, rolling out any excess glue to ensure a smooth surface. Install one on the inside and one on the outside using the hole in the suit and the gaskets to keep all three layers aligned.

    The gaskets allow a leak free installation without the use of any adhesive with a bit of lubricant to allow the valve to tighten down without pulling on the gaskets. Not using silicone adheasive makes it easier to remove the valve and clean it from time to time as well.

    Whites seems to be continually upgrading the details on the suit (change in zipper direction, end user installed holes in the skin, etc.) so it makes sense that a template might be found on the latest production suits and not the earlier ones.

    My suit did not have a template but I would not have trusted it if it did under the "measure twice, cut once" dictum. Height wise I need an XL, but an XL is tight in the calves of the leg so I had to step up a size. The extra leg lenght would have been problematic in valve placement. Putting a hole in a new dry suit is not for the faint of heart, so its worth the extra time to ensure the placement is correct.
     
  7. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    571
    69
    28
    I'm not sure I understand this. I used the Halcyon, which also has a cap that goes over the mushroom valve. Like, I think, you did, I attached the valve to the drycore, and then put the cap on over the mushroom valve, on top of the skin.

    I actually looked at your photos, and decided to use something else instead of rubber gaskets - I cut up part of the dry bag that miflex hoses come in (I think its either vinyl or urethane), and cut a ring to size, then aquasealed it on as a base for the cap to screw down to without fraying the skin.

    Did you really not use any adhesive on the valve? Aren't you worried about leaks?

    In any event, the problem I had (and the boat has now largely sailed, unless I want to send it into Whites for a repair) is that you have to be very careful in _where_ you put the valve. This is because the whole drycore and skin are meant to shift while worn, but the valve has to line up with an appropriate part of the skin -- not one of the very inconveniently (for valve installation) placed seams. If you put it in slightly the wrong place, it can interfere with flexing the knee, among other things. Fortunately, mine is up just slightly high enough that this isn't a problem, but I have to be very careful to have the drycore and skin pulled up far when I put it on.
     
  8. Skyjunky

    Skyjunky Barracuda

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    You've got a lot of "wiggle room" so to speak as far as the the valve placement-that's what the hose is for. Then again I keep my valve higher up my thigh.
     
  9. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    571
    69
    28
    Unfortunately that's not really an option for me.
     
  10. DA Aquamaster

    DA Aquamaster Directional Toast ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: NC
    11,518
    1,712
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    I have never used adhesive on dump valves either and it is essentially the same idea. If the surfaces are clean and soft enough to allow a solid seat, no leaks will occur. The difference in pressure is only a couple psi anyway.
     

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