Unfair Maui Rules May End Scuba Instruction! We Need Your Help

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Shaka Doug:

Wish you'd picked a different name for your story. :D I can't imagine someone that clueless but from the client perspective (especially the low buck chaser) the tan guy with the glasses and confident attitude is 'good enough'. He's lucky it wasn't even worse.

I've been following CORA as best I can from the mainland. The Ocean Safety site seemed to go stale and I got some news when I was on the island last month, but info is hard to come by.

To whom can the non-standing guy express ire? I don't live there (though I'd give up vacation time to go to one of these community meetings if outside voices could be heard) so nobody has to listen. There are some of us out here who'd at least like to voice support (or more).

Cheers!

-Rich
 
There are some issues with parking at certain locations. Overcrowding too. However, their solution will only make these two issues worse! The beaches are most crowded in the mornings on Maui. The other heavy time for people is sunset at some beaches. (Most activities that we're talking about don't take place at sunset so not an issue). By forcing us all to be at the parks at the required times it will contribute to overcrowding and lack of parking. Don't they get this??? (where's the bang head aganst wall smiley when you need it?)
If there are overcrowding an parking issues, how do you propose dealing with them?
Their problem, as indicated in the Maui News article, is to reduce the permit count from 139 to 90 over a few years. That's a big drop people. To the tune of over 35% of us going out of business. Do the math. Here's is a excerpt from the newspaper article:
But it also says through attrition, used in this sense it is a perfectly good word. It just means that the problem will go on until enough operations stop, for one reason or another, to reach a good balance point. That part sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Years ago, they issued kayak permits to anyone with the cash for one. If you had some kayaks and some cash you were in business. I know guys who went to Costco, bought 6 kayaks on their credit card and were in business the next week leading snorkel/kayak tours. It didn't matter that they were taking people out on snorkeling adventures for the first time in their lives and the operators were not certified or insured DM's or Dive Instructors. It didn't matter that somedays kayakers would take out groups of twenty kayaks or more for a big tour. The carrying capacities were never set or regulated by the Parks Department years ago and that's why things got so out of control.

One of my good friends brother (let's call him Rich) moved here from Denver about 7 years ago. Three days later he tells me he has a job leading kayak tours off Makena Landing. I was like, "What? How can you be doing this? What do you know about kayaking and snorkeling? What do you know about ocean safety? What do you know about local knowledge of the reefs and sea conditions?" He was an accident waiting to happen and sure enough it did. No offense to him but Rich had no business taking tourists out kayaking! He had no water skills nor safety training. He ended up getting a family washed up on some wash rocks by Malauaka Beach, the kayaks overturned, they lost two sets of fins, the father and his two boys were sliced up from the lava rocks and loaded with sea urchin spines all in their feet, arms, legs and hands. All three of them were bleeding all over the place! I was there when he came back to shore from the trip and the ambulance was called for these guys! I did first aid until the paramedics arrived. It was not a pretty site and could have been completely avoidable!!!! Rich was pretty shaken by the whole thing and quit doing kayak tours a couple days later. I have no idea what happened to these particular tourists but I do know they had to be in a lot of pain from the scrapes and sea urchins! Ouch!! They were a mess!

That's how it used to be and I can see that they need to regulate our industry to prevent it from happening again. However, the methods they are taking and the plans they are making have a lot of flaws and we need to stop them before they become law. Who is coming to the hearing? They will also accept written testimony if you can't be there in person.
What regulations are needed to prevent it from happening? Certification is assurance of quality, neither is insurance.
Thanks for your help. Remember, this can happen on your island next. I have been here on Maui for just about 12 years now. I have worked hard and have established a good reputation in the diving business. I have met lots of you scubaboarders and shown many of you a great time underwater. How can they get away with making it illegal for me to do what I do so well. How can they get away with limiting your access to safe diving? Would you like to hire me for a tour of an unfamiliar reef? Would you like a local orientation dive to start you off on the right foot? We can only do it where and when they say we can. Hope that fits your schedule. Are you going to let that happen or are you going to stand up for your right to choose your own safe diving.
I agree with you completely. I also see that you recognize that problems exists. What should be done?
 
constitutional law is the best way to challenge state laws and practices. do what you like. one thing for sure what happens on maui isnt going to affect my life one bit i gave you good advice take it or dont.
 
To reduce the overcrowding issues: Give us access to all beach parks (like the old permit system). That way we don't always have to be at the same locations. We would have alternate choices during bad weather and when the beach was crowded already.

Let us park like now...1st come 1st served. Do not restrict us to specific spots and specific times. How many spots do you think they will provide at Ulua Beach? What happens when a non commercial person parks in it? What happens if I park in it and end up late on a dive and overstay my time limit? What happens at the loading area when we are all trying to get out at noon on Saturday?? What happens if they give us the closest, best spots to park in ? Locals will be ticked off. What if they give us the furthest away spots? That creates a situation where we are furthest away from our First Aid and O2 (potentially a negligence issue on the county's part as I see it). What if they don't dive us enough spots and ten operators show up at the same time for four spots? Take the day off? Send our people home? Lose our income?

The attrition they are planning has to do with wearing us down. Making it hard for us to survive. They told us that three years ago. Mike Victorino, County Councilman, told us point blank at a meeting that some of us will go out of business. He threatened to make it even more difficult for us back then if we didn't compromise with them and let them have thier way.

Yes, we need a new permit system. They should steer away from this BLANKET system they are trying to implement and work with each group. Kayaks, Surfers, Kite Boarders, Snorkelers, Windsurfers, and Scuba Divers each have unique needs and wants. We don't all want the same locations, we don't all have the same carrying capacities. We are very different and they are trying to make a one size fits all permit system.

What kind of Constitutional laws are in our favor here? I'm all ears Black 3000psi.
 
To reduce the overcrowding issues: Give us access to all beach parks (like the old permit system). That way we don't always have to be at the same locations. We would have alternate choices during bad weather and when the beach was crowded already.
Some kind of scheduling system that restricts the numbers of users at any given time? Maybe web based?
Let us park like now...1st come 1st served. Do not restrict us to specific spots and specific times. How many spots do you think they will provide at Ulua Beach? What happens when a non commercial person parks in it? What happens if I park in it and end up late on a dive and overstay my time limit? What happens at the loading area when we are all trying to get out at noon on Saturday?? What happens if they give us the closest, best spots to park in ? Locals will be ticked off. What if they give us the furthest away spots?
Two close in loading zones with actual parking somewhat further away?
That creates a situation where we are furthest away from our First Aid and O2 (potentially a negligence issue on the county's part as I see it).
If First Aid or Oxygen are required they should be provided and scheduled by county personnel, there is far more liability as a result of depending on random providers who may, or many not, be either present when needed, or competent and up to the task.
What if they don't dive us enough spots and ten operators show up at the same time for four spots? Take the day off? Send our people home? Lose our income?
First come first serve or web scheduling. Over use needs to be curtailed and no one ever promised everyone a living, it's part of the problem.
The attrition they are planning has to do with wearing us down. Making it hard for us to survive. They told us that three years ago. Mike Victorino, County Councilman, told us point blank at a meeting that some of us will go out of business. He threatened to make it even more difficult for us back then if we didn't compromise with them and let them have thier way.
I suspect that he was just stating a fact ... some will go under. If the resource is being overused then some must be removed, one way or the other, in the overall best interest of those who will remain.
Yes, we need a new permit system. They should steer away from this BLANKET system they are trying to implement and work with each group. Kayaks, Surfers, Kite Boarders, Snorkelers, Windsurfers, and Scuba Divers each have unique needs and wants. We don't all want the same locations, we don't all have the same carrying capacities. We are very different and they are trying to make a one size fits all permit system.
No doubt, but without specific recommendations that make more sense their rather poor solutions will be adopted.
What kind of Constitutional laws are in our favor here? I'm all ears Black 3000psi.
There are none, you do not have a protected group. Peter's idea is the only one that I've read that might make a legal challenge possible.
 
Let's be clear...

The beaches in question are not "overcrowded" by commercial operators. In fact, for the most part, they're not even really "overcrowded" by anybody. The parking lots are smaller than they should be -- this would not be the case if public transportation was better used on Maui, but for the most part, people drive their own vehicles to the beach, whether they're there to dive, snorkel or suntan.

Yes, a number of the sites are very popular among divers -- Ulua Beach for example. That's because it's "easy" -- it's an easy and safe entry most of the time, the reef starts immediately upon entry, there's a spot where we can get most divers to (even intro divers) where turtles usually are, etc.

Is Ulua overcrowded? Even on a busy day, the gear-up area crowding is well-managed by cooperation between dive guides. Underwater it is not anywhere close to being as crowded as Molokini.

The easiest solution to the perceived "overcrowding" is to build more parking in the immediate vicinity. The second easiest solution is to get rid of the Visitor Channel's over-promoting of some beaches (Ulua was ranked in the top 2 beaches by the infomercial run by Maui Dive Shop, if I remember correctly) -- everybody thinks it's the best beach to go do, whereas Wailea and Polo (2 and 4 minutes further down the road, respectively) are equally great for general spending-time-at-the-beach, and I've never seen either parking lot full.

I think Doug's suggestion of working with the individual groups is the best one yet -- the local dive population, for the most part, works together... and I don't think I've heard of a public fist-fight between dive companies at the beach yet. The same cannot be said of the surf schools.
 
If there are overcrowding an parking issues, how do you propose dealing with them?

The first proposal many of us have made is to actually enforce the regulations that have been in place for many years now. There has been absolutely no enforcement that I've ever seen with regards to violations of the previous and/or current rules. We don't know that the current system doesn't work because we haven't been operating by the current system!

Just as with other regulation controversies on this Island, exaggeration is the typical ammunition. Back a couple years ago when the last hearings went nowhere I spent a couple happy hours composing a solution for the South Maui Underwater Concessioners (SMUC's). For unprintable reasons the next post will be it's first public appearance.
 
CORA Compromise Proposal - # of Permits; South Maui

Because there is no apparent or practical limit to the number of commercial groups on a given day at either Ulua or Makena Landing, there is very small pressure on Keawakapu, Wailea, Polo, Palauea and Maluaka (as in nearly none). The reasons for this are only partially due to to the less than accommodating locations and or facilities. The fact is those sites are hard to market as paid tours because for the most part the diving is mediocre or scooter only to get anywhere better than mediocre. Ulua and Makena Landing are where the guests want to go diving most, so not being able to operate at both will effectively kill customer loyalty.

If the South Maui operators are willing to follow the rules with regard to transportation, parking, record keeping and employee certification, as well as business conduct, location and insurance, they ought to be able to offer South Maui shore diving. Same for the West Side. The economy/demand is evidently supporting too much use in some areas, but we don't even know what use the current rules for scuba are causing because there has been no real enforcement of the current rules!

From a standpoint of marketing Maui to tourists, we might consider thinning the ranks of the providers to those best maximizing return on the product. Looking for best guest satisfaction with the smallest negative impact on the resources and existing community; the resorts already have diving operators with loyal and demanding captive cliental, the dive shops all have significant client lists and the established independents have their loyal fans too. The charter boats operators all have permits for Molokini, does a Molokini permit preclude them from shore permits?

There are 4 South Maui dive shops; 3 own boats, and the 4th is the shore diving specialist but just started managing at least one dive boat. There are currently 4 South Maui resort operators, with one's owners also owning a Molokini boat. Then there are the established independent instructor/guides who definitely will not survive without offering the full gamut of South Maui diving.

Perhaps 2 dive shops get full South Maui shore permit and the other 2 get half permits. Same with the resorts; 2 get whole permits, the other 2 get half permits. Then perhaps 6 independents with 2 getting full permits and 4 getting half permits. With opposing schedules include Keawakapu/Makena Landing/Polo and Ulua/Maluaka/Wailea, operators with scooters could reach all the good terrain each day while spreading out the land load. Seems ownership of scooters is nearly a prerequisite for consideration as a viable operator.

Night diving needs to be allowed on a regular schedule, not as a special one day event permit; maybe only half the operators can offer night dives a couple nights per week. Group sizes might be compromised to 6 guests / leader or agency standards, whichever is less. The main way residents get da kine deal is group rate!

In South Maui, that would severely reduce use in the most used areas and possibly motivate more artificial reef projects while still allowing for a solid, viable professional dive community. Finally, you should seriously consider making these permits transferable, in some relevant limited way. As long as the new owners can follow the rules and stay in business the permits should walk hand in hand with a dive business, just like a liquor license to a bar or restaurant.

If you can't follow the rules and lose your permit, another member of your peer group could upgrade or a new peer business could apply to fill the void (dive shop, resort operator, independent). Without permits some businesses might not survive. A qualified replacement business should be considered to maintain permit numbers unless continued activity use caused degradation of resources continues. To ensure park usage properly reflects the system, strict enforcement and adequate maintenance needs to happen, something that is currently lacking.

If there is still degradation from this initial level of restriction, a further reduction in usage could be appropriate. Maybe the dive operators would have a little motivation to do more to reverse impact if they are threatened with stricter limits, like hiring the personnel that goes the extra mile. If we just eliminate most operators, there will be just be less qualified leaders to help. Let's work together to make things better, not against each other!


2 dive shops with full permits - one A the other B
2 dive shops with half permits - one A the other B
2 resort op's with full permits - one A the other B
2 resort op's with half permits - one A the other B
2 unaffiliated with full permits - one A the other B
4 unaffiliated with half permits - two A other two B
Annual renewal could be for alternate schedule; every other year Ulua is Mon, Wed, Fri.

A schedule is use of; Ulua/Maluaka/Wailea on Mon, Wed, Fri, Keawakapu/Makena Landing/Polo Tue, Thur, Sat.
B schedule is use of: Ulua/Maluaka/Wailea Tue, Thur, Sat, Keawakapu/Makena Landing/Polo Mon, Wed, Fri.
Full Permit is up to 3 groups/vehicles using Beach Parks at any time (max 2 per Beach), with 6 guests max per group.
Half permit is one group/vehicle using Beach Parks at any time, with 6 guests max per group.

There would be 14 operators permitted to use South Maui Beach Parks, but only 7 operators permitted in each Park any given day. Everyone would have multiple site locations daily and everyone would be allowed to operate at every site, just on alternating days. That would be 10 groups/vehicles max in any Beach Park at any time (accommodating up to 60 guests). Any version of the rules that includes trading current permits for new one beach permits will result in more than 14 operators permitted to bring at least 28 groups/vehicles into Ulua on any given day (accommodating > 220 guests @ 8 guests max).
 
well you guys got the easy part done. you talked about it.
 

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