Urgent question about Inon S-220 + Canon G7X II

[edwinov]

Hi,

First post here and it's immediately an urgent one as it's evening here and tomorrow morning I will start a liveaboard and having an answer by then is kind of crucial.

I do a lot of photography on land, have done a lot of filming under water with my GoPro which, with a red filter, has led to some nice results. This year I wanted to take photos under water so I boiught myself an Inon S-220 and Meikon underwater housing for my Canon G7X II.

I've been trying to figure out how this combo works in the previous days which I considered practice days for the liveaboard. I have managed to take some really nice shots with the strobe set to S-TTL and the camera to Av. All the shots that were ok or even great were close up shots, almost macro, maybe 10 cm between camera and subject. The strobe was in these cases positioned to the top left of the subject, pointing at the subject.

Photos of something further away, say a diver at 2 m distance were all dull. I had the strobe pointed forward, a little pointed outside, like they advise in all the YT videos, and further away from the camera housing. It doesn't look to me like the flash is actually doing anything in these cases. I see it flashes but the light doesn't reach the subject. How to fix this? I thought I'd just turn the dial on the flash to A+ and beyond to increase the light output, I didn't notice a difference. Is a strobe like this meant to be able to light up a subject at say 2 m distance at all?

How does S-TTL really work? How on earth would the flash know when enough light has hit the subject? Shouldn't that exclusively be the camera that knows this?

In order to save battery on the camera itself, I dialed the flash (internal flash on camera) all the way down to -2 (or whatever is the lowest), assuming the only thing the S-220 needs to see is a flash and even a fainter flash at -2 is still enough to trigger the S-2220. But does the S-220's output vary WITH the intensity of the flash from the camera it sees? I can't find any info on that. So will the Inon's flash be more intense if the camera's flash is set to +2 instead of -2? I seem to be getting better results with the flash NOT dialed back but am not sure as still so new to this. I would think the S-220 just needs some flash to trigger it and the intensity of that trigger flash is irrelevant, indeed saving me battery power (and recycle time) if I can dial it all the way back. Right?

Any other tips?

Thanks in advance,

edwinov

 

[cerich]

2m away is simply too far, even the strongest strobes on the market are barely doing much at that distance. Water simply eats lights. Your strobe from what I have read is a medium powered strobe, and none in that class I have used will do much of anything at that distance unless a really reflective subject

You want to be getting closer than you think you need to be for your foreground subject, use strobe to light that (especially a single strobe setup) and then practice with using your shutter speed to get the background blue of the water what you want (if that is the background). Strobe TTL is not as good as in camera TTL, but exposure is exposure and the strobes do a good enough" TTL solution most of the time, and your strobe has a good rep for..so don't lose sleep over that.


I don't know that strobe or camera so will let others comment, but sounds like all is working correct with how you have been using and set up, just a wee bit too far from subject.

I really think you will find having the subject you want lite at one m away or closer is going to give you the colours you are looking for.

Get close, then closer

 

[cerich]

This picture I had two Olympus UFL-3 strobes, they have the same guide number as your strobes (but I think yours is a slight bit stronger still), regardless, the coral on left is maybe 9inches away from me, the divers hands 18 inches and the divers face a meter, maybe a meter and a tiny bit (I'm Canadian so ignore the switch between metric and imperial, I was imperial to age 10 or so, then metric and all mixed up LOL).

Look down the diver, how quickly the colour is gone, the flipper on the diver are white, but they are dull as anything and those flippers (my brand) are a very white white that is very reflective. Literally no light from my strobes were hitting them, that is just ambient lighting. You can see the gauge half way down the diver is getting a small amount of strobe light (see shadow), and being very reflective even still, it's not much, almost over by then, and that would have been just shy of 2 m away.

Hope this helped.

Your system is fine, your expectations and limitations are where you need some adjustments, once you have that all set in your mind, you will be able to get down there and frame and capture images that match what your mind eye can see, based on knowing what and how it all works with light underwater.

Have a great trip!

 

[edwinov]

Thanks for your answers so far. I hope someone can comment on the issue of strobe power vs trigger flash power too.

 

[cerich]

Thanks for your answers so far. I hope someone can comment on the issue of strobe power vs trigger flash power too.

My assumption reply earlier above was very wrong, so edit that out..

 

[David Haas]

NO........Don't power down your Canon G7X II internal flash to -2 as the Inon S220 in S-TTL (Slave TTL) will just try and replicate the flash power output you've dialed in!

At -2 FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation in Canon speak) you've told your camera flash TO UNDEREXPOSE THE FLASH POWER by 2 stops.......Resulting in not a lot of flash reaching say a diver or reef from 2' - 3' -4' or so away......

I leave my Inon S220 on the B setting at 12 o'clock on the strobe's back dial (middle S-TTL output) about 90% of the time.

If shooting really close either dial DOWN to C or farther away UP to A.......

Sometimes the exposure doesn't come out as drastically different (usually more spot on.)

If I want a slightly darker flash exposure with subject maybe only 1' -3' away I'll DIAL down the Canon camera FEC menu leaving my Inon S220 on B for simplicity.

You can even select the FEC choice and save it to the far right GREEN My Menu on your Canon G7X II allowing quick access.

Hope this helps!

David Haas

 

[cerich]

NO........Don't power down your Canon G7X II internal flash to -2 as the Inon S220 in S-TTL (Slave TTL) will just try and replicate the flash power output you've dialed in!

At -2 FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation in Canon speak) you've told your camera flash TO UNDEREXPOSE THE FLASH POWER by 2 stops.......Resulting in not a lot of flash reaching say a diver or reef from 2' - 3' -4' or so away......

I leave my Inon S220 on the B setting at 12 o'clock on the strobe's back dial (middle S-TTL output) about 90% of the time.

If shooting really close either dial DOWN to C or farther away UP to A.......

Sometimes the exposure doesn't come out as drastically different (usually more spot on.)

If I want a slightly darker flash exposure with subject maybe only 1' -3' away I'll DIAL down the Canon camera FEC menu leaving my Inon S220 on B for simplicity.

You can even select the FEC choice and save it to the far right GREEN My Menu on your Canon G7X II allowing quick access.

Hope this helps!

David Haas

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and there we are, awesome, glad you chimed in, I would have made same mistake

 

[David Haas]

I realize a lot of equipment for Sea and Sea to Inon and Ikelite, etc. manuals can be confusing......

S-TTL as I've posted in several posts is a fabulous underwater lighting tool if you know:

* How any TTL set up works underwater

* How HARD WIRED TTL (in certain housings or sometime external TTL controllers) communicate with a TTL strobe

* How you can "bias" or adjust S-TTL for slightly more under or overexposure (same as shooting manual flash output but faster IMHO.)

The very limited time we spend underwater trying to capture images made me always searching for the fastest method especially for wild animals that maybe you can get close enough to light for several shots.

Flash control using TTL (hard wired from camera's with a hot shoe) and now S-TTL (camera's built in flash triggering via optical cord) gave me that advantage for decades resulting in decent exposures I can fine tune in post processing easily.....

Just an old dog's opinion

David Haas

Here's some pics from year's past using Ikelite's TTL housing(s) and DS hard wired strobes.

I shot for years with a single warm wide beam flash. Much simpler to set up and dive and travel with!

Your mileage may vary! LOL......

 

[edwinov]

Thank you David for your answer.

So to be absolutely clear: the output of the S-220 does depend on the intensity of the trigger flash?

That is contrary to how I imagined the system. I would have thought the strobe would just react to a spark of light, be it faint or bright and then do it's thing. I mean, it's much easier/quicker to adjust the strobe's output power than to dive into the camera's menu and adjust the FEC. Also, the camera's internal flash's energy is utterly wasted, it just serves as a trigger. That's why I thought it woul be good to dial it all the way down, as that would still trigger the S-220 but waste less of the camera's battery.

I guess I could still kind of achieve this by dialing the FEC all the down but compensate for that by dialing the strobe all the way up, cancelling each other out? Of course if I needed more flash power I would now have to use the FEC because the strobe is already at max.

Your thoughts?

 

[David Haas]

Dialing your camera's internal flash in the AUTO (TTL) flash control will not save you much in battery power......

Dialing the camera flash down and external flash up might cancel out each other but again, in my experience using the same set up previously with Inon S2000 strobe(s) since 2016 it's worked better as I described.

Small camera, small battery so shooting AUTO flash on camera depends on f-stop, ISO chosen and distance to subject. That will determine how fast your flash drains the camera's battery, recycles, etc.

I estimate 80-125 flashes per battery charge.

I've taken spare charged batteries out on a dive boat in a dry bag.

Once dry I set myself up away from people throwing water around and can open and close the housing replacing the battery in 60 seconds.....

Or sometimes just go 2 dives and don't change it (?????) Depends where you are and all.......

Hope this explains it!

DH