Using AIR 2

[mcohen1021]

Why would you go 45 minutes that way......??

 

[Uber Dave]

I like the Air2 and used it a lot, however I now have a Seacure mouthpiece on my primary and I'm sure if I had to donate it someone would certainly gag while using it. So now I have regular octo for emergencies.

 

[johndiver999]

As a someone who is considering moving to an inflator/integrated second stage set up, I found this discussion really helpful and can see both sides of the debate.

However, I noted earlier comments about the BSAC being against such a set up, and I want to look into that further. It seems from this BSAC article that they do indeed recommend against such a set up.



Personally, that’s enough to move me away from the idea and I hope someone else finds this information useful, even if some in this thread will inevitably disagree with it (there are some strong opinions here).

Not to sound combative but... I don't really care what the BSAC says about diving in europe. I'm betting my life on my gear and I am making my own decisions and I am comfortable with an air 2 device.

Now that I think about it, I actually used mine on a dive yesterday at 80 feet, while I gave up my primary to my buddy who was running a little low and I wanted to extend our dive for a few more minutes as I wanted to stay down and attempt to complete a task. When I started to respond to this thread, I had forgotten that I shared air for about 4 minutes on the wreck because it was such a "non-issue" that I almost forgot about it. Once again, it was not a problem - at all.

Since you are a new diver, and I assume associated with that organization, then it makes sense for you to follow their directive. However, the precise reason(s) why they say the device is inadequate might be more useful than a simple statement of fact.

 

[Edward3c]

Since you are a new diver, and I assume associated with that organization, then it makes sense for you to follow their directive. However, the precise reason(s) why they say the device is inadequate might be more useful than a simple statement of fact.

Can I inquire as to when this criteria was adopted?

Seems to me it ignores a proven technology.

The donation procedure using an octo/reg unit is not compatible with BSAC OOG training, which is secondary take/donate. For those wanting to dive with a primary donate setup, for BSAC liability insurance purposes, need to have completed formal primary donate training, like here.

 

[rhwestfall]

Why would you go 45 minutes that way......??

Because it was a lot more enjoyable to do the dive than floating on the surface for 45 minutes in a current to get to the exit point..

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

However, I noted earlier comments about the BSAC being against such a set up, and I want to look into that further. It seems from this BSAC article that they do indeed recommend against such a set up.

I couldn't care less WHAT they say. I want to know WHY they say it.

Where's that at?

(Seriously, I'm not being argumentative - I'd like to know their logic in making such a statement that sounds flippant and without support, unreasoned)

 

[Jcp2]

I couldn't care less WHAT they say. I want to know WHY they say it.

Where's that at?

(Seriously, I'm not being argumentative - I'd like to know their logic in making such a statement that sounds flippant and without support, unreasoned)

I would guess it would be an internal expected procedural consistency for club divers. An AIR 2 is not donated out of stowage.

“While BSAC’s preferred method in an out-of-gas situation is to take the alternative supply (AS) from stowage, the optional Primary Donate Workshop ensures divers who choose this technique can do so appropriately and safely. The workshop also covers the skills needed to reconfigure kit back to the more usual AS take set-up.

Prior to the launch of the new Primary Donate Workshop, BSAC members have been able to dive within their clubs using the PD method if they have been trained with an appropriate external agency.”

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I would guess it would be an internal expected procedural consistency for club divers. An AIR 2 is not donated out of stowage.

“While BSAC’s preferred method in an out-of-gas situation is to take the alternative supply (AS) from stowage, the optional Primary Donate Workshop ensures divers who choose this technique can do so appropriately and safely. The workshop also covers the skills needed to reconfigure kit back to the more usual AS take set-up.

Prior to the launch of the new Primary Donate Workshop, BSAC members have been able to dive within their clubs using the PD method if they have been trained with an appropriate external agency.”

So it really has nothing to do with inherent safety or efficacy, just compliance with their protocol?

If that's the protocol, there's nothing in it contrary to safety or efficacy, so OK. But if that's it, I think it silly, to ignore alternatives. Not just to ignore them, but to call them out as unacceptable.

Requiring a "primary donate" course is right up there with "Boat Diver" or "Wetsuit Bathroom Diver" to figure out if my primary is gone, go with plan "B". Next thing you know, they'll be saying if you don't wear a snorkel, you'll die. Wait. I'll just donate my snorkel as the alternate!

The Air2 is hanging right there ... at arm's length ... not "in stowage" ... virtually in my hand at any moment. Here. Take my primary. We're good.

(Snarkyness denoted with italics)

 

[llyamah]

Not to sound combative but... I don't really care what the BSAC says about diving in europe. I'm betting my life on my gear and I am making my own decisions and I am comfortable with an air 2 device.

Now that I think about it, I actually used mine on a dive yesterday at 80 feet, while I gave up my primary to my buddy who was running a little low and I wanted to extend our dive for a few more minutes as I wanted to stay down and attempt to complete a task. When I started to respond to this thread, I had forgotten that I shared air for about 4 minutes on the wreck because it was such a "non-issue" that I almost forgot about it. Once again, it was not a problem - at all.

Since you are a new diver, and I assume associated with that organization, then it makes sense for you to follow their directive. However, the precise reason(s) why they say the device is inadequate might be more useful than a simple statement of fact.

I’m not a new diver (or not as new as my profile here suggests) and I have no association or affiliation with BSAC. Incidentally, I’m based in Europe but rarely dive there - I dive in warm waters only.

I have no horse in this race. I *really* want to buy an AIR 2 or SS1, but only if I can be persuaded they are a good choice *for me* in an *emergency situation* with a panicked diver (the situation you described was not an emergency - I have no doubt the AIR 2 would work perfectly well in the scenario you describe).

I’ve read every single reply on this thread and unfortunately I’m not persuaded. I was just sharing the BSAC article for info in case anyone finds it useful.

EDIT: Perhaps worthwhile noting that my BCD (an Apeks WTX wing) doesn’t have any valves on my shoulders to dump air. That’s factoring into my decision.

 

[Edward3c]

I’m not a new diver (or not as new as my profile here suggests) and I have no association or affiliation with BSAC. Incidentally, I’m based in Europe but rarely dive there - I dive in warm waters only.

I have no horse in this race. I *really* want to buy an AIR 2 or SS1, but only if I can be persuaded they are a good choice *for me* in an *emergency situation* with a panicked diver (the situation you described was not an emergency - I have no doubt the AIR 2 would work perfectly well in the scenario you describe).

I’ve read every single reply on this thread and unfortunately I’m not persuaded. I was just sharing the BSAC article for info in case anyone finds it useful.

EDIT: Perhaps worthwhile noting that my BCD (an Apeks WTX wing) doesn’t have any valves on my shoulders to dump air. That’s factoring into my decision.

The UK HSE (Health & Safety Executive) did research, in the early 00s, on how divers react in an OOA/G situation. What they found was divers did what they were trained to do, even if that training was 20 years earlier.

Whether you adopt an Air2 or not is your choice. Just be mindful of the type of diver you are normally diving with and what they were trained to do.

I recently, 2 weeks ago, aborted a dive as my buddy was primary donate rigged. I could see from the hose routing there could be a potential problem - they hadn't had any training and devised their own setup.