oafis
Registered
Where should i get the valve placed? Shoulder or forarm? Advantages/Disadvantages? thanks for the input
Valve Placement
- Thread starter oafis
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The last suit I bought had it on the forearm and based on that experince I much prefer it on the shoulder. When shoulder mounted, you can leave the valve adjusted to it's lightest setting, and it is just an easy roll to dump air with the added benefit that you get little or no unintentional dumping of air.
With the valve on the forearm you end up having to screw the valve down much tighter to prevent unintender air loss if you are working with your arms over your head. It also takes a bit more motion to dump air as you have to roll your shoulder a bit any way to get your arm out and up to dump. The position on the forearm is also more prone to hanging up on a strap while you are getting your gear on and it tends to be in the way and get banged around a bit if you are putting your arms in tight spaces etc.
With the valve on the forearm you end up having to screw the valve down much tighter to prevent unintender air loss if you are working with your arms over your head. It also takes a bit more motion to dump air as you have to roll your shoulder a bit any way to get your arm out and up to dump. The position on the forearm is also more prone to hanging up on a strap while you are getting your gear on and it tends to be in the way and get banged around a bit if you are putting your arms in tight spaces etc.
Shoulder.
With a shoulder dump you just need to bend your arm and raise your elbow. With a forearm dump you need to raise your entire arm and risk burping the wrist seal and getting your arm wet. With my shoulder dump I just need to roll to my right, bend my arm and raise my elbow.
Scott
With a shoulder dump you just need to bend your arm and raise your elbow. With a forearm dump you need to raise your entire arm and risk burping the wrist seal and getting your arm wet. With my shoulder dump I just need to roll to my right, bend my arm and raise my elbow.
Scott
GearHead
Contributor
My current drysuit has the shoulder valve, but I WISH it were on the forearm. I'd have to disagree with basically everything you said in the second paragraph below.
There's no reason that you'd have to crank down the valve for unintended air loss, particularly if you're using your BC for controlling buoyancy, as many do. I, for one, never want any excess gas in my suit whatsoever - if it wants out, no problem with me. Regarding extra motion/effort to dump from the wrist - also not true. My buddies that dive wrist dumps all stay horizontal for most of the dive and just raise their hands to dump gas, easy as pie. And the final point about the valve hanging on straps while your donning or doffing your rig - IMHO, it's WAY more likely for a shoulder dump to get hung up. When it's on your wrist, you have much more control over manipulating both arm position and the strap.
The only argument in favor of shoulder placement that holds water (pardon the pun) as far as I know, is the concept that if you're vertical in the water and "working on something" in front of you - if you need to vent, a shoulder valve will let you do it without sacrificing hand position. You can just tilt up and toward the valve.
As you can figure, I personally wouldn't recommend a shoulder dump.
There's no reason that you'd have to crank down the valve for unintended air loss, particularly if you're using your BC for controlling buoyancy, as many do. I, for one, never want any excess gas in my suit whatsoever - if it wants out, no problem with me. Regarding extra motion/effort to dump from the wrist - also not true. My buddies that dive wrist dumps all stay horizontal for most of the dive and just raise their hands to dump gas, easy as pie. And the final point about the valve hanging on straps while your donning or doffing your rig - IMHO, it's WAY more likely for a shoulder dump to get hung up. When it's on your wrist, you have much more control over manipulating both arm position and the strap.
The only argument in favor of shoulder placement that holds water (pardon the pun) as far as I know, is the concept that if you're vertical in the water and "working on something" in front of you - if you need to vent, a shoulder valve will let you do it without sacrificing hand position. You can just tilt up and toward the valve.
As you can figure, I personally wouldn't recommend a shoulder dump.
Dryglove
Contributor
I prefer a forearm dump and leave it all the way open as i only add enough air to offset excessive squeeze. To me its much easier to dump air and when ascending automatically vents expanding gas at the same time as i dump air from my oral inflator.
Us first two are right, the second two are just being argumentative.
I thinks it's like every other piece of dive equipment. Everyone has an opinion and most of them are valid. I teach drysuit diving a lot and have found it is easier for the people I teach to use shoulder dumps than forearm dumps because you do not need to change your attitude in the water and it makes the tuck and roll skill easier but I'm sure there are valid reasons for a forearm dump as well.
Don't get me started on those stupid ankle dump valves!
Scott
Don't get me started on those stupid ankle dump valves!
Scott
Dryglove
Contributor
Im not to sure what you mean by changing your position in the water. I can dump in a horizontal position or close to it anyways.To me it seems easier to funnel the air up your arm and out the valve instead of trying to position your shoulder valve at its highest point to vent air.
See this video for an example.
http://www.fifthd.com/classinfo/video/ascents.htm
I happen to have the shoulder dump on my Gates VSN 1100 and it vents fine in vertical or horizontal trim.
Not all drysuits have proper valve placement on the shoulder from this. Some you have alot of shifting to do if you're horizontal OR vertical. I haven't had that problem.
I don't like cuff dumps but have friends that do. They also happen to of had drysuits before with shoulder dumps that had bad valve placement on the shoulder.
And I like the large dump valve by apeks. The one that gets hung up easy on my shoulder strap. I know if it's a pain to get out of out of the water. It won't come off in the water unless I want it to. And it's hasn't had any problems. Unlike the Low profile apeks.
Personally, I ascend in a vertical attitude. I stay neutral and have my dump valve all the way open through the entire dive. Only adding air to prevent squeeze. Using my BC for the ascent. Usually staying completely neutral and a little kick to move up. I dive in a Horizontal attitude. And alot of times I continue the dive into shallower water. Staying in a horizontal attitude. Until I want to surface. Then I go vertical.
Nothing wrong with either way. Just how I prefer it. I don't like the cuff dumps I've tried as they are usually where I want to put my Computer, Bottom Timer, Or compass. And some of them are in a bad place for venting too.
And if bringing a diver to the surface. I wouldn't want to have to keep his arm above his shoulders to keep venting. I'd rather have it on the shoulder so I can open it up. Easier for me to make a controlled ascent if he's Unconscious or freaking out and needs help. One less thing to worry about.
Not all drysuits have proper valve placement on the shoulder from this. Some you have alot of shifting to do if you're horizontal OR vertical. I haven't had that problem.
I don't like cuff dumps but have friends that do. They also happen to of had drysuits before with shoulder dumps that had bad valve placement on the shoulder.
And I like the large dump valve by apeks. The one that gets hung up easy on my shoulder strap. I know if it's a pain to get out of out of the water. It won't come off in the water unless I want it to. And it's hasn't had any problems. Unlike the Low profile apeks.
Personally, I ascend in a vertical attitude. I stay neutral and have my dump valve all the way open through the entire dive. Only adding air to prevent squeeze. Using my BC for the ascent. Usually staying completely neutral and a little kick to move up. I dive in a Horizontal attitude. And alot of times I continue the dive into shallower water. Staying in a horizontal attitude. Until I want to surface. Then I go vertical.
Nothing wrong with either way. Just how I prefer it. I don't like the cuff dumps I've tried as they are usually where I want to put my Computer, Bottom Timer, Or compass. And some of them are in a bad place for venting too.
And if bringing a diver to the surface. I wouldn't want to have to keep his arm above his shoulders to keep venting. I'd rather have it on the shoulder so I can open it up. Easier for me to make a controlled ascent if he's Unconscious or freaking out and needs help. One less thing to worry about.
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