Vertigo on the surface

[Scubamat]

As others have said mostly sound like CO2 build up from shallow breathing. You can learn to recognise the symptoms before it become a problem and a couple of deep breaths will clear it if caught early. It starts as a minor need to breath that you are likely supressing as you are already concentrating on breathing it is similar to a minor need for salt and water you feel before heading on you way to dehydration. My other past time is playing assorted wind instruments so can easily recognise the start of CO2 build. I can breath in and breath out a lot of air quickly so I was really concertrating on my breathing for my first few dives to avoid the popping up issue I found the hardest thing was making sure I took deep enough breathes to avoid the CO2 issue. Just make sure you listen to your body because it can tell you something is wrong before you are throwing up on the surface.

 

[TMHeimer]

Interesting that PADI no longer recommends any hyperventilation (at least that's the last I heard). Instead, words like deep diaphragm breathing or something similar is recommended in certain situations. As a wind player, I have hyperventilated a bit before a long passage where catching a breath is awkward. I have also used hyperventilation for 40 years snorkeling (call it free diving to 10-15' if you like)--3-4 breaths, no more. No problems. Not sure what all I just said means, but avoiding any C02 problems--while diving or doing anything--means breathing normally. In diving, your mouth breathing should be slow and regular. Not unlike your breathing topside, whether you're a nose or mouth breather or a "both" breather like me. I've never thought about my breathing while diving since the get go 12 years ago.

 

[Madhu R]

Were you having discomfort in your ears?

Yes. It was mild (enough that I forget which ear), but there was definitely slight pain.

Were you congested during your dive?

No

Were you allowing a little air to come out of your nose to equalize the pressure squeeze in your mask when you descended?

Not that I noticed, but I'll watch for it next time.

Finally, do you have trouble with dizziness outside of diving? Do you get seasick, carsick, etc? If so, you could have a more important issue your doctor may be able to help you with.

Oh hell yes. On my day-long snorkel trip in the GBR (only two months ago, sort of got me to try scuba in the first place), I didn't throw up, but I was basically either lying down on the boat, or in the water snorkeling. My wife had to help me with gear, bringing me food and water, etc. The two flight lessons I took in my life (2011) both ended with my day shot, unable to stand up without severe motion sickness. However, I just don't want to give in to it. At this point, I refuse to give up.

Your breathing needs to be more or less normal or your will start to build up an excess of carbon dioxide in your system

That's my instructor's leading theory as well. I think we'll play with the weights a bit more, and I'll try to take deep breaths the whole time. If I shoot to the surface thanks to a deep breath, so be it, just means more weight is needed, I imagine.


In general, thanks very much for all the ideas and encouragement. I recognize that I'm fighting a lifetime of motion sickness, but I really want to give this sport a proper try.

madhu

 

[TotDoc]

Interesting that PADI no longer recommends any hyperventilation

The avoidance of hyperventilation stuff was more for free diving than for scuba - although there is really no reason to ever encourage hyperventilation while scuba diving. Slow full breaths is what you are looking for on scuba.

The reason a person would hyperventilate before a free dive is to drive down the CO2 level in the lungs before decent. The idea is that this will allow for a longer breath hold, but unfortunately, it's VERY dangerous. The reason why is that CO2 is what drives your reflex to breathe, NOT low O2 levels. This potentially allows you to dive down, swim around depleting your O2 levels severely, and not feeling the urge to breathe that would tell you it was time to return to the surface. As you ascend from depth, the water pressure on your body drops, dropping the pO2 in your lungs and blood, potentially to a level low enough to trigger a sudden black out.

 

[TotDoc]

Oh hell yes. On my day-long snorkel trip in the GBR (only two months ago, sort of got me to try scuba in the first place), I didn't throw up, but I was basically either lying down on the boat, or in the water snorkeling. My wife had to help me with gear, bringing me food and water, etc. The two flight lessons I took in my life (2011) both ended with my day shot, unable to stand up without severe motion sickness. However, I just don't want to give in to it. At this point, I refuse to give up.

Madhu,
It sounds like your problem may be multi-factorial. I feel pretty confident that CO2 retention from shallow breathing contributed to your problem, but it also sounds like you have some issues with motion sickness. I have a dive buddy who is also very sensitive to this, and has similar issues when he took flying lessons and when he dives. He tried a number of things, but ultimately picked up a seaband and it solved his problems without requiring medications - which was a plus, since it allowed him to try flying lessons again. Anyway, here's a nice article from DAN about motion sickness and possible ways to address the problem. You may want to consider some of these ideas if you still have issues after working out your breathing.

Motion Sickness — DAN | Divers Alert Network — Medical Dive Article

 

[TMHeimer]

Thanks

The avoidance of hyperventilation stuff was more for free diving than for scuba - although there is really no reason to ever encourage hyperventilation while scuba diving. Slow full breaths is what you are looking for on scuba.

The reason a person would hyperventilate before a free dive is to drive down the CO2 level in the lungs before decent. The idea is that this will allow for a longer breath hold, but unfortunately, it's VERY dangerous. The reason why is that CO2 is what drives your reflex to breathe, NOT low O2 levels. This potentially allows you to dive down, swim around depleting your O2 levels severely, and not feeling the urge to breathe that would tell you it was time to return to the surface. As you ascend from depth, the water pressure on your body drops, dropping the pO2 in your lungs and blood, potentially to a level low enough to trigger a sudden black out.

I know all that. Forgot to mention PADI said it in reference to free-diving, though I don't even recall PADI using the term free diving. But, whatever--3-4 breaths before "free diving" didn't cause me ever to black out. Of course, my "free diving" was mostly to 8-10-12 feet, not 50-60 feet as some do. If done correctly, hyperventaling is APPARENTLY not very dangerous. But, of course I agree completely that there is not reason to do it on scuba--what's the point?!

 

[TotDoc]

...If done correctly, hyperventaling is APPARENTLY not very dangerous.

I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on this one. Hyperventilating before free diving will always increase your risk for blackout, which is VERY dangerous. This can happen even with repetitive shallow dives, and does not require going deep to get you in to trouble. The main problem with this type of blackout is there is ZERO warning before it happens.

Google shallow water blackout and deep water blackout. Plenty of info out there on this...and lots of videos on youtube of people that previously thought it "wasn't very dangerous."

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on this one. Hyperventilating before free diving will always increase your risk for blackout, which is VERY dangerous. This can happen even with repetitive shallow dives, and does not require going deep to get you in to trouble. The main problem with this type of blackout is there is ZERO warning before it happens.

Google shallow water blackout and deep water blackout. Plenty of info out there on this...and lots of videos on youtube of people that previously thought it "wasn't very dangerous."

Well, yeah I hear what you're saying and need not watch a video. Not really disagreeing. Just saying I did it for 40 years snorkeling before I became a diver and never blacked out. But everyone is different and I agree with you in not recommending it to others. Maybe I was always just lucky or never took that "one too many" breaths before descending while snorkeling.
I probably disagree somewhat about shallow dives. I probably have snorkeled down to 8-10' many many times over the years. And done that dozens of times on most occasions while going down to collect shells. I would GUESS doing that down to 30' or more would be a different situation. Going up fro 8-10-12 feet doesn't leave a lot of time during the quick ascent for blacking out. But I'm just talking--am no expert except for my own experiences.

 

[Madhu R]

Hi again

I wanted to close the loop on this thread. Thanks for all the comments and feedback so far.

tl:dr: it was overwhelmingly likely alternobaric vertigo, and I'm OW certified now.

I left the thread about to do my second pool session. I did that, and felt my left ear pop, and my right ear did not. I didn't think much of it, but sure enough, about an hour in, I started to get dizzy. This time, I didn't push it, and called off the rest of the session right away. Good move - I recovered quickly (i.e. felt normal as soon as my wetsuit was off), and was able to drive home. Thinking through what happened, and talking with my instructor, I started to suspect alternobaric vertigo.

The next session, I focused on clearing both ears. I also took a sudafed beforehand. I refused to go down until both ears popped, and sometimes had to come back up a couple feet (just like it says in the book ). This session was my best so far, lasting two hours in the pool, about 50% at the bottom.

I now felt confident enough to do an OW referral in Oahu. I did four dives over two days with Kaimana Divers (Hi Gabe!), and had a great time. Did get seasick the second day, but the water was a bit rough (3-5 foot seas). Was totally fine once underwater.

So, that's about it!

 

[spectre184]

I have tinnitus (ringing in the ears). we dive fresh water a lot and I don't have hardly any problems. But diving in the Keys with current and waves I get sick. I found out about the Trans derm-scop patch that helps with nausea. Plus with that patch I can ride all the rides at Disneyworld now. Also found out not eat greasy food before I dive or drink with a lot of acid, orange juice, soda.