RickI
Contributor
Pre-80's is vintage, ouch! Well, I guess it has been almost 30 years, doesn't seem that long though. Always thought of vintage as pre-mid 60's. It's relative. Wonder what spanish salvage divers considered vintage?
Vintage?
- Thread starter RickI
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captain
Contributor
Most of us agree that vintage diving is using methods and equipment that were in use before the power inflated BC, octo, were in common use.
Paladin
Contributor
Hmm. I suppose the word "relative" is appropriate. What some people today call "vintage" is, for some of us, just plain standard diving equipment.
Personally, I think Vintage is anything before the hot pink wetsuit.
But I think it also includes Vintage Tech like ponys made from steel medical O2 tanks, dual regulator manifolds without isolators, and simple wings. These things were used in the late 60's and early 70's while the Aquamaster was still available.
But I think it also includes Vintage Tech like ponys made from steel medical O2 tanks, dual regulator manifolds without isolators, and simple wings. These things were used in the late 60's and early 70's while the Aquamaster was still available.
We go through the same discussion over and over, scubaboard is NOT the leading vintage scuba forum. Vintage Era had already been discussed to the point of nausea before scubaboard ever decided to have a vintage diver forum. No, 1979.5 is not Vintage Era.
NAVED is the main source of things vintage and 1973 (give or take) is widely accepted as being at least in the ball park. Vintage is not just equipment but it is also the style and techniques and methods utilized. Octopus regs, poodle jackets etc are not Vintage Era.
N
OP
RickI
Contributor
Well, I started in 1971, lots on here probably well before that late date. Still have an MR12 that works. Felt strange to be using such an old reg if only for a pony bottle but the repair guy gave full assurance on it. I got it in a garage sale in the 1970's. No way I would go back to my first flotation vest, although did have a recent NAVY swimmers vest that had some similarities. I paid stupid money for it to replace a surplus one almost identical from the 60's got for $5.. Here's a look at the USD vest, one of the early ones as I recall, coming out of Ginnie Springs in 1975 before Tom and Ike closed off the orifices. Was using a USD unbalanced piston Aquarius, no way in hell I would go back to that either! Try tugging on that below 100 ft.. Like the dive light, a Faralite, was thinking I could use one of those again in some recent cavern diving. At least until I found a 400 L Princeton LED marvel. How about that tank harness? Used that thing for years, slipping and sliding all over the place. It was plastic copied from a metal look alike from years before that. Easy to put on and take off, low bulk, but uncomfortable? The mask, name escapes me now, never really liked it either, even for free diving. Like the snorkel, even more in silicon, didn't exist at the time. Blows the hell out of these 1950's wanna be pingpong ball snorkels that seem to be almost inescapable these days. Try dropping below a 100 ft. on a breathhold with that drouge stick strumming against your head. On net, a mixed bag.
"Those were the days, aaahhh." Well, in all honestly, not really. Good parts, bad parts just as in all times. Vintage is as vintage does? Maybe, keep collecting, more importantly, just keep diving and collecting experiences. I like scooter free diving these days, tried it back in the day, somehow it just didn't click. Will no doubt be classic vintage, someday.
"Those were the days, aaahhh." Well, in all honestly, not really. Good parts, bad parts just as in all times. Vintage is as vintage does? Maybe, keep collecting, more importantly, just keep diving and collecting experiences. I like scooter free diving these days, tried it back in the day, somehow it just didn't click. Will no doubt be classic vintage, someday.
...........
This was diving in the Warm Mineral Springs Underwater Archeological Research Project in Florida in 1973, where I participated for most of a summer) and I do not consider this vintage diving:
This photos was diving in about 1972 or so, and I do consider it vintage diving:
There is a difference in technique as well as equipment to dive. One relies on equipment (SPG, inflator hoses, octopus regulators, etc.) while the other relies mostly upon diving skill, proper weighting for the depth with a wet suit, and skill in the water. Vintage diving was usually conducted with a double hose regulator, and a J-valve or constant reserve valve (Healthways Scuba regulator's restrictor orifice); we dove wet suits in cold water, and weighted ourselves for the depth we were diving.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. But realize that most of the modern diving with BCs, safe seconds, etc., were spawned by the cave diving, ice diving and wreck diving specialties. They have become "standard" for all divers out of a conservative safety notion that more equipment is better. But with vintage diving, equipment failures were very rare, and when they did occur, we could surface. BCs now cost as much as a regulator, and when we were experimenting with buoyancy compensation, it was with the idea of overcoming some of the limitations of vintage diving. Divers now dive with a dry suit and a buoyancy compensator; but dry suits do not need buoyancy compensation--you add air to the dry suit; pure vintage divers find that amazing.
There was a comment above (I think it was this thread) about a plastic double hose regulator (probably either an AMF Voit Blue 50 Fathom or a Jet Air by US Divers) malfunctioning and causing a total loss of air. The only conceivable way for that to happen is to have the levers so out-of-adjustment as to be loose on the diaphragm, and actually come apart (they are held only by the pressure of the diaphragm) underwater. To do this, they would have had to have been adjusted so that they were very low in the case, and not touching the diaphragm--it must have been very difficult to breath with when it "worked." For best breathing, and for safety, these levers should be adjusted to about 1/4 inch (6 mm) above the top of the case when horizontal on its back (put a straight edge on the case, and the lever height should be above that bottom edge by that amount). The levers on the Mistral, Jet Air, Healthways SCUBA, Stream Air, and Voit single stage regulators (even the downstream Voit 50 Fathom) should be as high as possible without causing air to flow when the case is reassembled with the diaphragm in it.
John
This photos was diving in about 1972 or so, and I do consider it vintage diving:
There is a difference in technique as well as equipment to dive. One relies on equipment (SPG, inflator hoses, octopus regulators, etc.) while the other relies mostly upon diving skill, proper weighting for the depth with a wet suit, and skill in the water. Vintage diving was usually conducted with a double hose regulator, and a J-valve or constant reserve valve (Healthways Scuba regulator's restrictor orifice); we dove wet suits in cold water, and weighted ourselves for the depth we were diving.
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. But realize that most of the modern diving with BCs, safe seconds, etc., were spawned by the cave diving, ice diving and wreck diving specialties. They have become "standard" for all divers out of a conservative safety notion that more equipment is better. But with vintage diving, equipment failures were very rare, and when they did occur, we could surface. BCs now cost as much as a regulator, and when we were experimenting with buoyancy compensation, it was with the idea of overcoming some of the limitations of vintage diving. Divers now dive with a dry suit and a buoyancy compensator; but dry suits do not need buoyancy compensation--you add air to the dry suit; pure vintage divers find that amazing.
There was a comment above (I think it was this thread) about a plastic double hose regulator (probably either an AMF Voit Blue 50 Fathom or a Jet Air by US Divers) malfunctioning and causing a total loss of air. The only conceivable way for that to happen is to have the levers so out-of-adjustment as to be loose on the diaphragm, and actually come apart (they are held only by the pressure of the diaphragm) underwater. To do this, they would have had to have been adjusted so that they were very low in the case, and not touching the diaphragm--it must have been very difficult to breath with when it "worked." For best breathing, and for safety, these levers should be adjusted to about 1/4 inch (6 mm) above the top of the case when horizontal on its back (put a straight edge on the case, and the lever height should be above that bottom edge by that amount). The levers on the Mistral, Jet Air, Healthways SCUBA, Stream Air, and Voit single stage regulators (even the downstream Voit 50 Fathom) should be as high as possible without causing air to flow when the case is reassembled with the diaphragm in it.
John
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Why is it that every time a diver comes in here for the first time he just pisses and moans about how horrible vintage diving is or was? I dove my aquarius the other day, it works fine. I have plenty of modern gear, and I am not vintage (age wise), so if breathing through my aquarius sucked...well...I wouldn't do it. It also isn't "hard to tug on" at depth, it is a demand regulator. It gives you as much air as your lungs "request" by creating an area of lower pressure. It may be unbalanced, but if you are that far into your tank (like say the 300 psi mark) to have it exhibit that high of a cracking pressure due to the reduced supply pressure acting on the downstream flowby piston at 100 feet then the problem is not with your regulator, it is with your lack of dive planning. Either that or whoever tuned your reg was a rank amateur. Mine cracks at .6" with a full tank, and a little over 1.4" with 200-300 PSI left. 1.4" of water is within spec for most of all modern regulators including Aqualung and Atomic. Still, if the jacket BC and 600 dollar regulators are your thing, more power to you. Oh yeah, and welcome to the vintage forum you crusty old man. :mooner:
Let us not forget that the mistral has the fewest amount of moving parts and the fewest amount of o-rings of any regulator that most of us have ever seen. Cousteau dove it to 300 feet, plenty of other divers dove it super deep as well. I cannot even foresee how one could fail if the levers were set to the correct height unless you managed to rip the inhalation hose or somehow tear the diaphragm while underwater. Even if the spring in the HP seat broke, the device by design would want to stay open, not shut. It is the M7 bayonet of diving: heavy, simple, multi-functional, and reliable.
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