Weight belt follow-up

[String]

I know of 3 people in or connected to someone in my club that have had weight belt incidents.

Note, all these are "normal" weight belt webbing/clips. A few people have harnesses and had no issues and only 1 person out of the 70 or so members has weight integrated so too small a sample to count.

Ive also experienced and seen "near misses" with the belt slipping badly whilst in the water but the situation recovered.

Granted that given there are 1000s of dives in total between these people but it does still happen and is more common than other equipment failiures ive seen such as uncontrolled freeflows and so on.

Im never happy with my belt on the surface and frequently have to tighten it once at depth - with my drysuit and undersuit it just doesnt "bite" and tends to slip down. Im seriously considering a harness for that reason.

As others have mentioned i cant really see any incident where a live diver having his weight belt jettisoned at depth is going to make much of a difference to a rescue - especially a quick release belt.

Given that the diver shouldnt be massively overweighted he can be recovered by (i) his BC (ii) his drysuit (iii) your BC (iv) your drysuit or a combination of more than one if lots of lift is needed.
These have the enourmous advantage of being controlled.

A weight belt release for rescue will probably kill the casualy if its from any depth, especially an unconcious one unable to control their breathing rate.

The only time i could see for a belt to be jettisoned underwater is that of a dead diver. However, even then im sure a dive knife could get webbing even if quick release isnt present - whats the rush ?

On the surface there may be a need but again, given the other sources of buoyancy its not something that HAS to be done in 1 or 2 seconds, a bit longer is fine.

I know of one person who likes to jettison his belt on the surface as he uses it as a theory that if he's lost at sea/boat is missing using his DSMB/reel he clips the belt to the reel and drops it to the bottom to act as an anchor. It reduces the distance he'll drift from the drop in. Whether thats better than drifting with the current given software used to predict it is a matter for another thread.

In short though, yes i think weight belts releasing accidentally are more of a risk than the need to jettison one ASAP from someone under the water so id like to see the things made harder to release (ie more secure for normal use).

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

String once bubbled...
In short though, yes i think weight belts releasing accidentally are more of a risk than the need to jettison one ASAP from someone under the water so id like to see the things made harder to release (ie more secure for normal use).

1) wearing 2 buckles on your weight belt, and making sure it is snug around your waistline, will practically eliminate any possibility of accidentally losing your weight belt;

2) using an integrated B/C, and making sure the weight pouches can only be removed manually, not with a rip cord, is another solution to the possibility of accidental weight loss.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Genesis once bubbled...


There is no reason to ditch a belt, even on the surface, unless you CANNOT inflate the BC. Since BCs can be inflated orally, even when the tank(s) are empty, that means that only in the event that the BC will not hold air is it appropriate to ditch the kit - and likely, the belt as well. (Exceptions noted for people who are severely overweighted!)

There are a whole lot more "exceptions" than the one you gave.

Instructors normally teach students to visualize and practice ditching their weight belts on the surface, in case there is any doubt about their positive buoyancy.

Here are some more "exceptions":

The onset of any type of panic at the surface.

Rough sea conditions in which you are having trouble on the surface.

You get washed away from the dive boat by a current (this is when using the boat's weights is a big plus!)

Any type of rescue situation, once you reach the surface.

 

[String]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


1) wearing 2 buckles on your weight belt, and making sure it is snug around your waistline, will practically eliminate any possibility of accidentally losing your weight belt;

2) using an integrated B/C, and making sure the weight pouches can only be removed manually, not with a rip cord, is another solution to the possibility of accidental weight loss.

1) 2 buckles is OK but "making snug around waistline" is great in theory, near impossible in practice. Wearing a thick semi dry suit (say 7mm+7mm jacket) it WILL compress substantially at depth. Wet neoprene also slips.

With a drysuit that has a fluffy undersuit as well as the slipperly shell material again snug is near impossible.

2) Integrated BCs are probably great for hard boat/tropical diving and setups where not much weight is needed. Diving off RIBS and when you have to hand your BC/tank which would include another 20+lb of lead up to someone in a rough sea is difficult and asking a bit much of the person on the boat. Also, if you need to get out of your BC under water, suddenly "getting out" of all your weight is not a great idea at all. Its the same as jettisoning a weight belt.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

String once bubbled...



1) 2 buckles is OK but "making snug around waistline" is great in theory, near impossible in practice. Wearing a thick semi dry suit (say 7mm+7mm jacket) it WILL compress substantially at depth. Wet neoprene also slips.

Just more reasons to go with a trilaminate shell drysuit rather than a semi dry or a compressed neoprene.

String once bubbled...


With a drysuit that has a fluffy undersuit as well as the slipperly shell material again snug is near impossible.

I have never had a problem with mine. I first squeeze the air out of it in the classic tuck position. Then when I stand up, it clings to me pretty well. Then I exhale when tightening my belt. Stays on great. Dont even need a crotch strap to ensure that it stays in place!

String once bubbled...


2) Integrated BCs are probably great for hard boat/tropical diving and setups where not much weight is needed. Diving off RIBS and when you have to hand your BC/tank which would include another 20+lb of lead up to someone in a rough sea is difficult and asking a bit much of the person on the boat. Also, if you need to get out of your BC under water, suddenly "getting out" of all your weight is not a great idea at all. Its the same as jettisoning a weight belt.

28 lbs of lead, yah. But I manage it ok by myself. Nobody else touches my gear, whether in the water or out of the water. I can normally reach down and remove the weight pouches individually, before I haul the whole rig back into the RIB.

 

[VaScubaGirl]

This past weekend I was doing semi-solo lobster dives off of NC. One of the other divers lost her weight belt while trying to help another diver get a lobster into a game bag. She grabbed the other diver and tried to tell him to go down (which of course he didn't have enough weight to get them both down and they started to rise. She let go of him, dumped all the air in her BC and did as controlled of an ascent as possible. He went back down to retrieve her weight belt, his lobster stick (which got dropped in the interim) and then finished his dive. Was this the best way to handle this situation?

 

[String]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Just more reasons to go with a trilaminate shell drysuit rather than a semi dry or a compressed neoprene.

Errr no. Im talking about a tri-laminate suit but compressed neoprene dry suits have exactly the same problems - they are effectively thick membrane drysuits. You still wear clothes underneath, they still press in when attaching a belt. No difference at all. Compressed Neoprene and tri-laminate suits are the same idea.

As for thick wet suits, some people prefer them.

I have never had a problem with mine. I first squeeze the air out of it in the classic tuck position. Then when I stand up, it clings to me pretty well. Then I exhale when tightening my belt. Stays on great. Dont even need a crotch strap to ensure that it stays in place!

I have a problem and every single person i know has a problem, im not talking about air squeezing out, im talking about the undersuit(s) being squeezed which most definately causes them to slip. Also with very thick undergarments there are no hips as such to for a belt to hang on. Again, its why harnesses are incredibly popular over here with dry suit divers.

28 lbs of lead, yah. But I manage it ok by myself. Nobody else touches my gear, whether in the water or out of the water. [/B]

Ok, firstly there is still the issue about needing to doff the BC underwater which could happen for a number of reasons. Secondly, if you really want to haul yourself onto a tiny rib with large sides in 4ft seas wearing full kit, feel free but not many people make it. In some conditions its difficult enough with no kit to clamber aboard.
Standard procedure is to hand up DSMB/Reel, hand up weight belt, then whilst sombody holds the diver the BC and tank. Then keeping on mask/fins only climb aboard.
Hardboats are obviously different where you climb a ladder in full kit.

 

[Genesis]

Instructors normally teach students to visualize and practice ditching their weight belts on the surface, in case there is any doubt about their positive buoyancy.

I know they do. Its a DUMB PRACTICE.

Here's why:

1. If you EVER do it at depth in a panic situation you're screwed. The LAST thing you want to do at 100' is become irrevocably buoyant.

2. If you're on the surface and "in doubt" about your positive buoyancy, you have LOTS OF IT. Its called a BC! Hit the inflator until it pops off on the OPV, and you'll be VERY buoyant. If that is not enough, dropping the belt will not make the difference. Second, if you DO ditch, then the only source of weight that will tend to float you head-up is now GONE (since the belt lowers your center of mass), which means now you get to fight with being turned face-down - exactly what you do NOT WANT in an emergency on the surface. Blow up the BC, put the buoyancy ABOVE the weight, and you tend to float head-up.

3. IF and only IF the BC will not hold air, THEN ditching the belt makes sense.

Here are some more "exceptions":

The onset of any type of panic at the surface.

Inflate the BC. Faster and easier than ditching the belt, and reversable if the panic subsides.

Rough sea conditions in which you are having trouble on the surface.

Inflate the BC. Ditching the belt does DAMAGE to your center-of-mass, in that it will cause it to move UPWARD, which in rough seas makes the problem WORSE, not better.

You get washed away from the dive boat by a current (this is when using the boat's weights is a big plus!)

Ditto - you do NOT want to be face-down or fighting to not be. The belt helps keep you head-out!

Any type of rescue situation, once you reach the surface.

Yeah, I know this is the "mantra", but I still think its wrong. Inflate the BC, once again.

Particularly in a rescue situation where you might need to perform rescue breathing on the surface, you DO NOT want the victim to be "foot light." If he is, then keeping his airway protected becomes a lot harder! Ditching his weight belt will only exacerbate that problem. Modulating the gas in his BC will, in most cases, be a better solution and lead to a more stable body position for the victim, and most importantly, keep his airway protected.

I argue that most of the stock stuff fed to divers in class is pablum in this regard.

 

[String]

Im wondering how much of this "weight belt jettison" culture actually dates back to pre ABLJ days where weighting was the only method of getting approximately neutral and NO source of controllable buoyancy was available.

Obviously it would be important then. Less so but still a factor with early ABLJs but since the advent of the BC i really cant see any need. Maybe its just a relic of old diving days passed down from instructor to instructor (overseen by agencies though).
It may still be taught purely because nobody has bothered to review its effect in the real world.

Maybe sticking my neck out here but id wager that there are more incidents caused by the loss of a weight belt than there are that could have been cured by a diver jettisoning a belt.

 

[IzzyTahil]

I've seen too many people losing their belts too many times. When I was wearing one I was always uncomfortable and in the back of my mind it would become undone sooner or later. I solved that problem by wearing a harness - its much more comfortable and allows releasing half or all the weight.